Ultima Online NEW LEGACY, will it be another Siege/Mugen Shard ??

popps

I have been trying to figure out how the New Legacy Shard will be like....

From the sound of it, but i might be misunderstanding it all, it sounds to me pretty much another Shard like Siege or Mugen....

Is that it or is there more to it ?

Also, will the new Shard in some way have Hacking and Cheating be aggressively addressed ?

The reason for asking, is that for many players, one of the "turning off" of PvP is the fact that some fellow players, to get an edge, use cheats and hacks to get an advantage for them in PvP.

How will this be addressed on the New Legacy Shard if its ruleset will permit non consentual PvP ?

Furthermore, from reading the History of Ultima Online from past Developers, I understand that uncontrolled player killing caused an hemorrage of players to Ultima Online and many things were tried but nothing seemed to work.... then Trammel was created and brought back players.

Now, my question about the New Legacy Shard is, will there be some serious Notoriety mechanics to keep player killing under control in some way or will it be an "anything goes" new Shard ?

I mean, is the goal to have it a niche PvPers only Shard or to have it packed with PvMers and PvPers players ?

UO.COM is not working so I cannot get further info from it.

Anyway, I am looking forward to this new Shard but certainly not if it will be an "anything goes" Shard....

Lord_Nythrax

If this is just another attempt at a PVP shard I'm going to want my time back.

popps

I was finally able to read the UO.COM info about the New Legacy Shard and there is something which puzzles me....

It is mentioned that it is NOT possible to transfer from the current Shards to the New Legacy one which is totally understandable BUT, it is mentioned that after the Shuttering at the end of the "Season" (I seem to understand that @Kyronix in the Live Stream perhaps indicated it as lasting 1 Year ?), New Legacy Shard characters WILL be able to transfer to the current Production Shards AND bring along items that are not Shard Bound with them.....

Excuse me ?

Will this be a way to make new Rares make it into the current Production Shards which all those players who will keep playing the production Shards and NOT the New Legacy Shard will NOT be able to earn because they were exclusive items made available on the New Legacy Shard ?

Also, from the Live Stream, I seemed to understand that skills will be trained up differently as what we know now on Production Shards....

So how will it be possible for these New Legacy Shard characters built under a different mechanics be able to transfer after the Shattering onto the current "old" Production Shards ?

Won't there be conflicts with characters trained up and built in a different way and under different mechanics "co-existing" under the same Shard then ?

jelinidas

@popps ; Why do you care? You wont play the game, just read and write about how it "should" be done.

Sombrerose

I guess some mecanics will be transfered to old shards, at the end of the season.
Something like what is done on Path of Exile.

Margrette

The announcement today wasn't what I expected.  I am looking forward to finding out what the team comes up with.  It was good to see them excited about this new project. This year has been so hard on everyone that it's just a real pleasure to see people enthused about something and looking forward to the future.  I am glad they took the time to do something today to commemorate UO's 23 years of existence and I wish them all the best with this project.  I hope people will take to heart what Greg said about the dev team being real people. They have feelings, hopes, aspirations, and dreams just like everyone else.  Let's all be kind and give them our support and just be thankful we still have our own unique community to celebrate.

Petra_Fyde

IF I've understood right (and I admit it's a big IF) This shard will give newer players a way to build a viable character, and a year to do it, without the difficulties they currently face on normal shards. Hard to get gear, out of control economy etc, etc. Yes, there will be open world pvp, but also ways to live peacefully if that's not your scene. At the end of the year they can then transfer to a regular shard, established, trained and more able to cope with the veteran players they find there. There are some 'special' things to tempt veteran players to build a character there, but if you want to keep that character you'll need a free slot to transfer it to when the shard shatters.

I think that's what it is. But I'm far from sure.

Pawain

popps said:

I was finally able to read the UO.COM info about the New Legacy Shard and there is something which puzzles me....

It is mentioned that it is NOT possible to transfer from the current Shards to the New Legacy one which is totally understandable BUT, it is mentioned that after the Shuttering at the end of the "Season" (I seem to understand that @ Kyronix in the Live Stream perhaps indicated it as lasting 1 Year ?), New Legacy Shard characters WILL be able to transfer to the current Production Shards AND bring along items that are not Shard Bound with them.....

Excuse me ?

Will this be a way to make new Rares make it into the current Production Shards which all those players who will keep playing the production Shards and NOT the New Legacy Shard will NOT be able to earn because they were exclusive items made available on the New Legacy Shard ?

Also, from the Live Stream, I seemed to understand that skills will be trained up differently as what we know now on Production Shards....

So how will it be possible for these New Legacy Shard characters built under a different mechanics be able to transfer after the Shattering onto the current "old" Production Shards ?

Won't there be conflicts with characters trained up and built in a different way and under different mechanics "co-existing" under the same Shard then ?

Yes there will be items there that we can't get on production shards.  Unless they make them shard bound... 

When you transfer to a prodo shard you will gain skills like prodo shards do. Come on man. Get better questions.

Marge

Open world pvp? No thanks; have fun pk'ers!

Margrette

Petra_Fyde said:

IF I've understood right (and I admit it's a big IF) This shard will give newer players a way to build a viable character, and a year to do it, without the difficulties they currently face on normal shards. Hard to get gear, out of control economy etc, etc. Yes, there will be open world pvp, but also ways to live peacefully if that's not your scene. At the end of the year they can then transfer to a regular shard, established, trained and more able to cope with the veteran players they find there. There are some 'special' things to tempt veteran players to build a character there, but if you want to keep that character you'll need a free slot to transfer it to when the shard shatters.

I think that's what it is. But I'm far from sure.

That's a good way of looking at it.  

JackFlashUk

So you were typing this crap even when the live stream was on?

Why didn’t you ask question there and then
you could have got answer to all this drivel you wasted time with

idiot 

Arnold7

Really hard too watch.  After viewing for what seemed like forever don’t have a clue as to what the new shard will be like nor do I see any reason I would want to play on it.  Not really into pvp.  Don’t like to kill other players.  Really have no interest in doing that.  I know it is important to some players, but it is not to me. You need to attract new players if you want UO to survive.  Right now I just can’ t see any reason for younger gamers to have any interest in playing this game and I did not hear anything that would change that.  I am guessing that most younger players without mentors simply get frustrated and move on after a week or two.  Sorry for the negative review but I just expected more.  Spawns and bosses just do not sell games anymore.  And, just a suggestion, recommend you plan your presentations a little more next time and that you do a few more practice runs so that you get most of the bugs out before you go live with the next rollout.

Larisa

It sounds amazing. I can see how this will bring in new players AND re-populate the rest of the shards once they go through the shattering. Whilst new players are on New Legacy, we can promote our shards there through the immersive interactions and quests.

Great job team!

Lady_Storm

We can only hope so.     
I was a beta player in UO long before Bonnie and Mike joined the players on the original shards. I know the hell of the first year and how hard it was to do.. I still have Fluccian ways.. and i have tons of gold but a bag is a bag worth gold... if you get my drift.  New players might not want that fear it gave players.. Mike was fast to remember his old days and the terror of it.  Not that it was not fun..  (I remember pks hunting miners)
We shall see... 
I am willing to give it a shot to pull new bodys to UO.   We need Covid to stop and people to go back to some assemblage of normalcy.  
As I tell all when they join UO... Family and RL first  UO dead last. Keep it that way and UO will live.

popps

Petra_Fyde said:

IF I've understood right (and I admit it's a big IF) This shard will give newer players a way to build a viable character, and a year to do it, without the difficulties they currently face on normal shards. Hard to get gear, out of control economy etc, etc. Yes, there will be open world pvp, but also ways to live peacefully if that's not your scene. At the end of the year they can then transfer to a regular shard, established, trained and more able to cope with the veteran players they find there. There are some 'special' things to tempt veteran players to build a character there, but if you want to keep that character you'll need a free slot to transfer it to when the shard shatters.

I think that's what it is. But I'm far from sure.

The problem I see, if that my understanding is that this New Legacy Shard will have the same Classic and Enhanced Clients which we currently have which it will mean, that just like now we got scripters, hackers and cheaters, the New Legacy Shard will have.

I would have hoped for an entire new Client for the New Shard which was unscriptable, uncheatable, unhackable..... but oh well....

The problem I see is, that being a New Shard where players need to build up everything, scripting will be rampant if possible, I am expecting....

Now, I do not see why would any player who does not want to script or cheat, want to be interested in starting on a New Shard where, supposedly, scripting and cheating might be rampant, especially at start... players will want to get an edge and so they will fire up their scripts and let them run 24/7, I suspect.....

I mean, there is no competition to play versus fellow players who cheat and script, right ?

So, I fail to see the point to even think about starting playing there unless, there will be an aggressive and succesfull stance against cheaters and scripters...

But if the Clients will be the ones we have now, how will it be possible to stop cheating and scripting ?

Has UO been able to stop scripting, hacking and cheating in the current Shards we play ?

Hopefully, more will be known about this New Legacy Shard but with the current informations available, my guess is that it will be a niche Shard pretty much for PvP, not much for PvMers or perhaps even nothing at all to see for PvMers, and what it might do, is possibly take some players out of Siege Perilous and maybe Mugen making them even less populated....

It was mentioned that the Server will be US based, and we know how in competitive PvP the connection to the Server is quite important.

So, if the Server will be US East based, it "might" attract some Europeans, I do not think any Asians, if it will be US Pacific based, it "might" attract some Asians but hardly any Europeans, and if it will be based US Central, it might not appeal much neither Europeans nor Asian PvPers....

So, my guess, with the current informations at hand, is that it will probably be only a niche PvP Shard for mostly US players...

Maybe not a clone of Siege Perilous and Mugen, with some differences, but not much different to them in terms of playstyle....

And we know how populated those "PvP" Shards are......

If more players will be wanted to populate it, namely PvMers, it will be necessary, to my opinion, to have some way to put under control Player Killing, especially if the Client will not block any scripting, cheating and hacking from being possible.

Anyone who has seen any of those Third Party programs knows what help and edge they can provide in PvP to those players running them.

I just do not see any point in even thinking to start playing on a Shard pretty much all based on PvP unless some strong assurance will be given that any and all hacking, cheating and scripting will be harshly dealt with.

At least, that is how I see it.

popps

Arnold7 said:

Really hard too watch.  After viewing for what seemed like forever don’t have a clue as to what the new shard will be like nor do I see any reason I would want to play on it.  Not really into pvp.  Don’t like to kill other players.  Really have no interest in doing that.  I know it is important to some players, but it is not to me. You need to attract new players if you want UO to survive.  Right now I just can’ t see any reason for younger gamers to have any interest in playing this game and I did not hear anything that would change that.  I am guessing that most younger players without mentors simply get frustrated and move on after a week or two.  Sorry for the negative review but I just expected more.  Spawns and bosses just do not sell games anymore.  And, just a suggestion, recommend you plan your presentations a little more next time and that you do a few more practice runs so that you get most of the bugs out before you go live with the next rollout.

After viewing for what seemed like forever don’t have a clue as to what the new shard will be like nor do I see any reason I would want to play on it.  Not really into pvp.  Don’t like to kill other players.  Really have no interest in doing that.

I think likewise, and that is why I say that, from what I seem to understand from the current informations available, that it seems that this New Legancy Shard might end up being another niche PvP Shard like Siege Perilous or Mugen....

Not much to see there for PvMers, at least from what I seem to gather from the current informations available.

A Shard that was highly populated would need, to my opinion : 

1) - A new Client which was impossible to use cheats, hacks or scripts with. Which it means, that it should be a Client that would detect them and ban the player automatically.

2) - It should be a Shard that was to permit PvM which it is, having a mechanics to keep Player killing under control in some ways like for example, giving Rewards and promoting "Blue" players to actively hunt down "Red" players thus using PvP as a way to keep player killing under control

As of now, on Felucca ruleset facets, it actually is the other way around where Reds have the goodies pretty much and Blues do not have much interest in getting out to hunt Reds actively.

Infact, has anyone seen really any succesfull Guild of Blues across all Shards ?

There really seems not to be any interest in PvPers to play Blues that hunt down Reds....

Most PvPers if not all of them, are Reds and go Raid Blues.

Unless the New Legacy Shard will have a sound mechanics to promote Blue PvPers to go out and actively hunt Reds, with Rewards and Prizes for doing that, thus maintaining player killing under control, I do not see how the New Shard could look any appealing to PvMers....

And, of course, I need to stress the importance to address scripting, cheating and hacking aggressively from day 1.

That is at least how I see it.

Kirthag

Popps... pls stop making assumptions about the Red vs. Blue dynamics. You obviously do not play a pvp type of toon, so how can you manage to babble about that style of play?

Pre-Tram was hard, it was challenging, it was kill or be killed - but it wasn't the all-out blood baths so many people think it to be. A red character was not necessarily out to kill your toon for your meager possessions - even I became a red for a time simply because people reported me when the bounty system went poof. Do you know the bounty system? Probably not.... the loss of that system made Red the bleeding play style it is today - if only they could have fixed the system to work the way it should have (within the spirit of role-play) and not just become a gamed system by those thinking they would "win UO"

There is no winning UO.

As a RPVPer (Role Player versus Player) I like a balanced combat system with RISK and REWARD - and this sounds like a step in that direction.

If you're not gonna play it Popps, then just sit it and let others discuss. Your input isn't necessary I believe.

AtomicBetty

Kirthag said:

Popps... pls stop making assumptions about the Red vs. Blue dynamics. You obviously do not play a pvp type of toon, so how can you manage to babble about that style of play?

Pre-Tram was hard, it was challenging, it was kill or be killed - but it wasn't the all-out blood baths so many people think it to be. A red character was not necessarily out to kill your toon for your meager possessions - even I became a red for a time simply because people reported me when the bounty system went poof. Do you know the bounty system? Probably not.... the loss of that system made Red the bleeding play style it is today - if only they could have fixed the system to work the way it should have (within the spirit of role-play) and not just become a gamed system by those thinking they would "win UO"

There is no winning UO.

As a RPVPer (Role Player versus Player) I like a balanced combat system with RISK and REWARD - and this sounds like a step in that direction.

If you're not gonna play it Popps, then just sit it and let others discuss. Your input isn't necessary I believe.

I like your attitude.

popps

Kirthag said:

Popps... pls stop making assumptions about the Red vs. Blue dynamics. You obviously do not play a pvp type of toon, so how can you manage to babble about that style of play?

Pre-Tram was hard, it was challenging, it was kill or be killed - but it wasn't the all-out blood baths so many people think it to be. A red character was not necessarily out to kill your toon for your meager possessions - even I became a red for a time simply because people reported me when the bounty system went poof. Do you know the bounty system? Probably not.... the loss of that system made Red the bleeding play style it is today - if only they could have fixed the system to work the way it should have (within the spirit of role-play) and not just become a gamed system by those thinking they would "win UO"

There is no winning UO.

As a RPVPer (Role Player versus Player) I like a balanced combat system with RISK and REWARD - and this sounds like a step in that direction.

If you're not gonna play it Popps, then just sit it and let others discuss. Your input isn't necessary I believe.

You do not need to listen to me, I am clueless right ?

But perhaps, it might be worth listening to a Developer who was right there, back then, and saw it all and tried to do something about it....

Raph Koster in this live forum https://www.raphkoster.com/games/interviews-and-panels/live-forum-qa-with-raph-koster-1016/ says....

I do believe in a crime/punishment system. But everything we tried did fall prey to new accounts and killers who just didn’t care. If they have no emotional attachment to losing (e.g., don’t give a shit) then there isn’t any in-game punishment you can offer up. I don’t know if you were around for it, but I tried for a LONG time to get that balance right in SWG. Bounty systems became high score tables. Rewards were claimed by dummy accounts. Most everything we tried became a tool for the bad guys. And the good guys literally had no way to win, because the bad guys could just come back the next day, over and over, and just wear your spirit down.

And also...

I do think a modern UO would not succeed with freeform PvP. It might well have PvP in it, but the whole gankfest thing is definitely a thing of the past. I never got to try the Outcasting concept that was proposed for SWG and never implemented, and would still love to see it tried (if you PK someone, they can report you to fellow players, along with a log of the event. If you are convicted, your right to PvP is permanently revoked). But even that, in these days of easy account creation on F2P games, maybe wouldn’t work. Bad guys would just make new accounts.
To me the essence of sandboxiness that was in UO and SWG is not about the PKing. It is about a simulated world, a functioning economy, a low power difference between high and low level players, and a system that doesn’t push you into combat as the only way to play the game (or even classes).

Not enough ?

Well, at the 2018 Game Developers Conference (https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1024930/Classic-Game-Postmortem-Ultima-Online),I understand, ALL Developers agreed that non-consensual PvP was a mistake (https://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/).

That is the Game Developers Conference, intended for Professionals in the Industry, and ALL Developers from Ultima Online who said that....

Perhaps, JUST perhaps one might at least listen to these people ?

Pawain

popps said:

You do not need to listen to me, I am clueless right ?