Black Gate Feedback

keven2002

@Kyronix - I saw the release notes today for the new shards and saw there were a few teaks to the Black Gate event (step in the right direction) but it still only looks like 1 quest per character.

That said, with the event having 8 rewards (and they are all random) and a fully expanded account only having 7 max slots why wouldn't you allow the quest to be done multiple times by characters that want / can do it? What's the logic behind making it impossible for a single account to obtain a set for themselves? 

Kyronix

@keven2002 - I brought the feedback up with the rest of the team and we decided it was best to keep it one per character.  This is to address two concerns.  Firstly, buying/selling/trading to obtain items is part of the game world.  It fosters interactions between individuals, promotes trade which drives the economy, and creates a market for items that are often scoffed at as "just deco".  Secondly, allowing one character to chain complete the quest over and over again often leads to complaints of abuse.  So to address those concerns the quest is only available once per character.

Thanks for the feedback!

keven2002

That's a bit disappointing to hear but I do appreciate the honest feedback! Thanks for responding!

Tim

Kyronix said:

@ keven2002 - I brought the feedback up with the rest of the team and we decided it was best to keep it one per character.  This is to address two concerns.  Firstly, buying/selling/trading to obtain items is part of the game world.  It fosters interactions between individuals, promotes trade which drives the economy, and creates a market for items that are often scoffed at as "just deco".  Secondly, allowing one character to chain complete the quest over and over again often leads to complaints of abuse.  So to address those concerns the quest is only available once per character.

Thanks for the feedback!

I agree 
 Also selling items make it worth doing for those not interested in "just deco" items.

MissE

selling items:   SHARD BOUND.

great if your on a shard where there 'may' be spares if not you are out of luck.  Worst idea ever making 'deco' items shard bound, yet the items that are used and needed by players or items that are super rare such as EM items are not.  Someone I guess is making money somewhere.  It is like the ararat stealables are shard bound so you cant sell em on shard with no new population. People don't even bother stealing them as what are you gonna do with them?  Stick em in a chest and then toss em for clean up points.  Brilliant.  What is the reason for that other than some stupid idea someone had at one time?

Making items harder to get doesn't get away from the fact they are 'just deco'.  Most disappointing bunch of rewards for supposedly 'new content' that has taken all year to produce.  As I said in another thread , unless the reward assists my characters in some way, either new pets, new wearables, new craftables then it is not enough to keep me interested more than 10 seconds.

Pawain

Ya I ran a bunch of toons on Origin and Chesapeake, Could only sell two of the quest items.
Not much market on small population shards.  

Pawain

@kyronix.  Is there a reason for the Anhk necklace to look the same in quest and reward form.

Cinderella

Pawain said:

I can pop it tomorrow.  Since you don't answer in chat now.

sorry, for some reason, I didn't see this comment.
I was finally able to complete that quest, so I could finish the other quest.

Kyronix

@Pawain - the quest reward text ties it together.

Pawain

Kyronix said:

@ Pawain - the quest reward text ties it together.

I was putting all the items on 1 toon so I cant tell which were from the Ranger and which were from Shamino. Maybe change colors in the future if they are same name and graphic.

popps

MissE said:

selling items:   SHARD BOUND.

great if your on a shard where there 'may' be spares if not you are out of luck.  Worst idea ever making 'deco' items shard bound, yet the items that are used and needed by players or items that are super rare such as EM items are not.  Someone I guess is making money somewhere.  It is like the ararat stealables are shard bound so you cant sell em on shard with no new population. People don't even bother stealing them as what are you gonna do with them?  Stick em in a chest and then toss em for clean up points.  Brilliant.  What is the reason for that other than some stupid idea someone had at one time?

Making items harder to get doesn't get away from the fact they are 'just deco'.  Most disappointing bunch of rewards for supposedly 'new content' that has taken all year to produce.  As I said in another thread , unless the reward assists my characters in some way, either new pets, new wearables, new craftables then it is not enough to keep me interested more than 10 seconds.

I need to disagree.

I appreciate the Shard Bound items for 2 reasons :

# 1) - The items, rather then inevitably ending up, for the most part, to Atlantic, STAY on that Shard for the Locals to finally be able to buy Event items from Events to which they could not participate in, for one reason or another, and not most always end up to have to go to Atlantic or ask to someone who can commute from their Shard and Atlantic to buy them for them....

# 2) - This prevents that Shard Bound items are "farmed" on a lowly Populated Shard to then be transferred somewhere else to be sold.

Personally, I think that Shard Bound items should be a LOT MORE then what they are and I welcome very much the fact that this new Event Model generates Shard Bound Rewards.

Well done @Mesanna , @Bleak , @Kyronix , @Misk and all of the Developers !!

MissE

popps said:

MissE said:

selling items:   SHARD BOUND.

great if your on a shard where there 'may' be spares if not you are out of luck.  Worst idea ever making 'deco' items shard bound, yet the items that are used and needed by players or items that are super rare such as EM items are not.  Someone I guess is making money somewhere.  It is like the ararat stealables are shard bound so you cant sell em on shard with no new population. People don't even bother stealing them as what are you gonna do with them?  Stick em in a chest and then toss em for clean up points.  Brilliant.  What is the reason for that other than some stupid idea someone had at one time?

Making items harder to get doesn't get away from the fact they are 'just deco'.  Most disappointing bunch of rewards for supposedly 'new content' that has taken all year to produce.  As I said in another thread , unless the reward assists my characters in some way, either new pets, new wearables, new craftables then it is not enough to keep me interested more than 10 seconds.

I need to disagree.

I appreciate the Shard Bound items for 2 reasons :

# 1) - The items, rather then inevitably ending up, for the most part, to Atlantic, STAY on that Shard for the Locals to finally be able to buy Event items from Events to which they could not participate in, for one reason or another, and not most always end up to have to go to Atlantic or ask to someone who can commute from their Shard and Atlantic to buy them for them....

# 2) - This prevents that Shard Bound items are "farmed" on a lowly Populated Shard to then be transferred somewhere else to be sold.

Personally, I think that Shard Bound items should be a LOT MORE then what they are and I welcome very much the fact that this new Event Model generates Shard Bound Rewards.

Well done @ Mesanna , @ Bleak , @ Kyronix , @ Misk and all of the Developers !!

Stuff like this event is not likely to be valuable at all.  The stuff that is valuable and needs to be shard bound are things like power scrolls, em event items that are 'rare' and limited in number. Basic deco like this stuff (available to all) won't be worth a dime. NO deco item should be shard bound.  As for stuff ending up on atlantic did it ever occur to you that on small shard like mine, you can't get items and the ONLY place you can get them is on atlantic.  I bring just as much BACK from there as I take.  The amount of ppl on our shard means there just isn't the quantity of stuff being farmed and for those that are collecting you need a much wider pool of players to be getting the items for them to be for sale, can't do that if everything stays on the shard and noone can shop for it elsewere or transfer to your shard.  No one is gonna come to my shard to farm this useless crap they can do it just as easily on their own shard, these are not DROP items, anyone who does it will get the reward there is NO POINT to going to another shard to get stuff.

People only 'farm' items that are limited due to them only being available in fel and as it is easier to chain spawns unmolested on the small shard hence why they do it.

keven2002

Very good point @MissE. I will only be doing this quest on my "home" shard that I live on because there is no need for decoration (shard bound) on the other shards I play when I'm looking to get away from the high population shards.

One could also argue that the people on low pop shards like Origin know that they will never get a full set of the stones (for their home) so they will transfer to ATL to do the quest and sell the stones. Further perpetuating the issue where people say ATL is where everything ends up.

Merus

Kyronix said:

@ keven2002 - I brought the feedback up with the rest of the team and we decided it was best to keep it one per character.  This is to address two concerns.  Firstly, buying/selling/trading to obtain items is part of the game world.  It fosters interactions between individuals, promotes trade which drives the economy, and creates a market for items that are often scoffed at as "just deco".  Secondly, allowing one character to chain complete the quest over and over again often leads to complaints of abuse.  So to address those concerns the quest is only available once per character.

Thanks for the feedback!

So your first stated reason is to promote trade... but you make the items shard bound, thereby restricting the market significantly.  

Your second stated reason... well this completely escapes me... isn’t the point of paying our subscription to PLAY THE GAME?  I can understand limiting clicky type gifts to characters or even accounts, but limiting playable content seems very counter productive to a sandbox type game.  Concerns about abuse should be handled in content design, not simply slapping a limit on participation.

It is decisions like these that are driving players away, not bringing them back.

Kyronix

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

@ keven2002 - I brought the feedback up with the rest of the team and we decided it was best to keep it one per character.  This is to address two concerns.  Firstly, buying/selling/trading to obtain items is part of the game world.  It fosters interactions between individuals, promotes trade which drives the economy, and creates a market for items that are often scoffed at as "just deco".  Secondly, allowing one character to chain complete the quest over and over again often leads to complaints of abuse.  So to address those concerns the quest is only available once per character.

Thanks for the feedback!

So your first stated reason is to promote trade... but you make the items shard bound, thereby restricting the market significantly.  

Your second stated reason... well this completely escapes me... isn’t the point of paying our subscription to PLAY THE GAME?  I can understand limiting clicky type gifts to characters or even accounts, but limiting playable content seems very counter productive to a sandbox type game.  Concerns about abuse should be handled in content design, not simply slapping a limit on participation.

It is decisions like these that are driving players away, not bringing them back.

I look at it from this perspective.  Currently, Atlantic serves as the primary economic hub because it has the highest population and thusly the highest demand.  What this ends up doing, with non-limited content is creating a situation where players farm low-population shards then return to Atlantic to sell those items while not actively being a part of that shard population.  As a result we often here feedback that we aren't doing anything to help boost population on low population shards. 

Now I'd offer this - with the current implementation we have a situation where there is opportunity for players who normally wouldn't play on lower-population shards to visit that shard, play through the quest, collect the runes, sell/trade with the players of that shard to generate complete sets.  This fosters interactions between individuals on those shards and helps to build the community of that shard (player + interaction = community).  The results of those transactions can still be transferred (gold, gear, loot whatever) so we still have the benefit of game-wide trade being available.

On a final note, as I've read, and is often said - you are making these items shard bound, why isn't item XYZ shard bound too!?  This system is new hence we have a lot more leeway to change the implementation.  Altering existing implementations is often challenging with established norms (i.e. those items are not currently shard bound). 

Thanks for the feedback!

Merus

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

@ keven2002 - I brought the feedback up with the rest of the team and we decided it was best to keep it one per character.  This is to address two concerns.  Firstly, buying/selling/trading to obtain items is part of the game world.  It fosters interactions between individuals, promotes trade which drives the economy, and creates a market for items that are often scoffed at as "just deco".  Secondly, allowing one character to chain complete the quest over and over again often leads to complaints of abuse.  So to address those concerns the quest is only available once per character.

Thanks for the feedback!

So your first stated reason is to promote trade... but you make the items shard bound, thereby restricting the market significantly.  

Your second stated reason... well this completely escapes me... isn’t the point of paying our subscription to PLAY THE GAME?  I can understand limiting clicky type gifts to characters or even accounts, but limiting playable content seems very counter productive to a sandbox type game.  Concerns about abuse should be handled in content design, not simply slapping a limit on participation.

It is decisions like these that are driving players away, not bringing them back.

I look at it from this perspective.  Currently, Atlantic serves as the primary economic hub because it has the highest population and thusly the highest demand.  What this ends up doing, with non-limited content is creating a situation where players farm low-population shards then return to Atlantic to sell those items while not actively being a part of that shard population.  As a result we often here feedback that we aren't doing anything to help boost population on low population shards. 

Now I'd offer this - with the current implementation we have a situation where there is opportunity for players who normally wouldn't play on lower-population shards to visit that shard, play through the quest, collect the runes, sell/trade with the players of that shard to generate complete sets.  This fosters interactions between individuals on those shards and helps to build the community of that shard (player + interaction = community).  The results of those transactions can still be transferred (gold, gear, loot whatever) so we still have the benefit of game-wide trade being available.

On a final note, as I've read, and is often said - you are making these items shard bound, why isn't item XYZ shard bound too!?  This system is new hence we have a lot more leeway to change the implementation.  Altering existing implementations is often challenging with established norms (i.e. those items are not currently shard bound). 

Thanks for the feedback!

I appreciate your comments.  

I would challenge the basic premise you relied on in your position.  Your position presumes that there is a substantial enough population on low population shards to entice players to transfer there to complete content in order to effect commerce.  Unfortunately, as someone who regularly plays a low population shard, this assumption is false.

Players farm low population shards as a means to more efficiently gather resources in a competitive environment.  Those resources are then sold/moved to the location where the demand for those resources exist.

If demand for those resources exist on low population shards, players will sell them there... even if those resources aren’t shard bound provided the price on the low shard is competitive with the price on other shards.  This provides the incentive to play lower population shards.

By making the items shards bound it has the opposite effect.  There is so little demand that most players will not find it worthwhile to invest in playing there... thus further reducing the population of those shards.

IMO, you need to pick one or the other... either make them shard bound and let players collect as many as they want on their shard, as well as buy/trading to complete sets within their community OR limit it to 1 per character... definitely not both.  Personally I feel like given the fact that, as a developer, one of the paramount goals is people engaging in content, I find the first option more in line with a positive game experience.

Hippo

I was dreading the quest chain but so far I've been able to complete one quest on Origin (I xsharded a stealth necro-mage over) and three on home shard Legends. The compassion sage drop rate is the only limiting problem so far, the UEW and GD's are rough on underdeveloped characters but a shout in Gen Chat usual gets a helper that will party you I have a HONESTY rune stone on Origin that I will trade to someone for one on Legends or Atlantic.

Victim_Of_Siege

I will get a full set on Origin if it kills me. I will keep deleting a character and stoning skills until i do, if that is what it takes. Hopefully @Kyronix, it will last long enough for that to happen

Kyronix

@Victim_Of_Siege - you will have plenty of time - that's the can-do spirit I've come to expect from seasoned Britannians! Good luck!

Pawain

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I will get a full set on Origin if it kills me. I will keep deleting a character and stoning skills until i do, if that is what it takes. Hopefully @ Kyronix, it will last long enough for that to happen

I have a bunch of the quest items that require no fighting on Origin. Nobody wanted to buy them.

ZekeTerra

@Kyronix my only real concern is the random reward.  I've done the quest on Legends now with 4 characters and have gotten 3 Honesty Stones and 1 Justice.  If we could pick what we wanted I would have 4 of the set not 2 and 2 extra Honesty ones.  My Trinsic Governor really wanted Honor (symbol of Trinsic)...  One other comment is on the Ginseng.  A lot of people I play with usually will keep a set of the Quest Turn In items to keep on display with the rewards and with the Ginseng having a timer that is is not possible.

Arroth_Thaiel

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I will get a full set on Origin if it kills me. I will keep deleting a character and stoning skills until i do, if that is what it takes. Hopefully @ Kyronix, it will last long enough for that to happen

Other people might have slots on Origin available to help you complete the quest, for a price.

Easiest new toon is probably Mysticism 50, +30 Mystic Ring/Bracelet, cast RC off Scrolls. You can probably get a new toon kill credit pretty easily if you're running as primary damager with your main.

Just trying to speculate on how to do this with the least amount of effort.  

Victim_Of_Siege

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I will get a full set on Origin if it kills me. I will keep deleting a character and stoning skills until i do, if that is what it takes. Hopefully @ Kyronix, it will last long enough for that to happen

Other people might have slots on Origin available to help you complete the quest, for a price.

Easiest new toon is probably Mysticism 50, +30 Mystic Ring/Bracelet, cast RC off Scrolls. You can probably get a new toon kill credit pretty easily if you're running as primary damager with your main.

Just trying to speculate on how to do this with the least amount of effort.  

using skills i already have on stones will be easiest for me.  I can use a mage with 90 skill to summon daemons and complete the quests, I have already done it once

Mariah

ZekeTerra said:

@ Kyronix my only real concern is the random reward.  I've done the quest on Legends now with 4 characters and have gotten 3 Honesty Stones and 1 Justice.  If we could pick what we wanted I would have 4 of the set not 2 and 2 extra Honesty ones.  My Trinsic Governor really wanted Honor (symbol of Trinsic)...  One other comment is on the Ginseng.  A lot of people I play with usually will keep a set of the Quest Turn In items to keep on display with the rewards and with the Ginseng having a timer that is is not possible.

Offer your extras for exchange on the shard forum, or trade forum.

Victim_Of_Siege

So I tried one of my EJ accounts and i was able to complete the Shamino quest on it. If this is intended for EJ, then problem solved, i'll just make mages and use my tamer to support their efforts in killing the UBEV, Trogs, And Dragons. Should be no issue, unless of course EJ shouldn't be able to do the quests @Kyronix

*i'm thinking EJ isn't as i can take the quest from Jaana but i cannot get the scroll to pop in my pack to complete it.

Arroth_Thaiel

Victim_Of_Siege said:

So I tried one of my EJ accounts and i was able to complete the Shamino quest on it. If this is intended for EJ, then problem solved, i'll just make mages and use my tamer to support their efforts in killing the UBEV, Trogs, And Dragons. Should be no issue, unless of course EJ shouldn't be able to do the quests @ Kyronix

*i'm thinking EJ isn't as i can take the quest from Jaana but i cannot get the scroll to pop in my pack to complete it.

  EJ characters can start the quest but not complete it. If you take the quest, then go to Julia's pool of blood, you'll get the message that you collect a vial of blood, but none will appear in your backpack. A closer inspection of the system message will reveal the "EJ accounts cannot access this item" notice when clicking on the blood pool. (I tried this first, that's why I was trying to come up with the next easiest way to do it!)

Larisa

Pawain said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I will get a full set on Origin if it kills me. I will keep deleting a character and stoning skills until i do, if that is what it takes. Hopefully @ Kyronix, it will last long enough for that to happen

I have a bunch of the quest items that require no fighting on Origin. Nobody wanted to buy them.

Because those are the easiest ones to get! Do the Dragon one or the Compassion Sage one and I will buy them

My crafter can kill 50 trogs.....but not 5 greater dragons....so help a lady out!

And I can't get compassion sage to save myself....worst...luck...EVER!

I will buy any items you have though because I do want a set of the quest items as well as the stone tiles.

I'm happy that they are shard bound....hopefully it will make each shard dependent on themselves and not Atlantic

Victim_Of_Siege

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

So I tried one of my EJ accounts and i was able to complete the Shamino quest on it. If this is intended for EJ, then problem solved, i'll just make mages and use my tamer to support their efforts in killing the UBEV, Trogs, And Dragons. Should be no issue, unless of course EJ shouldn't be able to do the quests @ Kyronix

*i'm thinking EJ isn't as i can take the quest from Jaana but i cannot get the scroll to pop in my pack to complete it.

  EJ characters can start the quest but not complete it. If you take the quest, then go to Julia's pool of blood, you'll get the message that you collect a vial of blood, but none will appear in your backpack. A closer inspection of the system message will reveal the "EJ accounts cannot access this item" notice when clicking on the blood pool. (I tried this first, that's why I was trying to come up with the next easiest way to do it!)

You can complete the Iolo quest though since you have to buy the items required. Get the cool pillow. I know I said Shamino in that post, but I meant Iolo 

Arroth_Thaiel

Victim_Of_Siege said:

You can complete the Iolo quest though since you have to buy the items required. Get the cool pillow. I know I said Shamino in that post, but I meant Iolo.

I predict a plethora of pillows........

Cinderella

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

You can complete the Iolo quest though since you have to buy the items required. Get the cool pillow. I know I said Shamino in that post, but I meant Iolo.

I predict a plethora of pillows........

they would look good on beds