Item disappeared from backpack post-IDOC

Maximus_Neximus

@Mesanna @Kyronix

I attended a few IDOCs yesterday, as did many others. After the Drachenfels castle near Cove fell, items fell into our pack just as they should per the IDOC rules. However, many of us logged out and back in later to find that items were gone. Someone posted on Stratics their conversation with a GM who stated that, "...the directive to confiscate them comes from Mesanna".

If these items were known to exist and players shouldn't have them (this is speculation), why were they allowed to remain in a players castle and go IDOC? If GMs were given a directive to confiscate items, then they were known to exist. Why can't players, who legally obtained these items, keep them?

I have to say; it's quite the gut punch to have finally procured a unique item after 18+ years of play just to have it removed from my pack.

Pawain

Seems they are deleting things that were not intended to be in the barrels.  Things over a certain weight should not have been put in containers. So, when this happens and you have to call a GM to remove the item they delete as the new game mechanics intended. (Mervyn should love these GMs)

Also a lot of players are asking ppl to throw away the bugged or overweight items they were able to get out. So this does not cause issues in the future.

Nevermind, I now see what you are talking about.  Those items were from EM or Seer houses. They were not meant to go to us.  I am glad they did not.

I still miss vet rewards not being in the barrels.  I saw many statuettes go poof. this week. I have a nice place where they could live in a loving environment.  I somehow lost a house teleport tile. Now I have a single.  I'll never be able to buy then now.  The prices for the store ones are insane.

Maximus_Neximus

Pawain said:

Nevermind, I now see what you are talking about.  Those items were from EM or Seer houses. They were not meant to go to us.  I am glad they did not.

Based on what? Based on the speculative posts on the other forum, some say it was an EM or seer house while others are certain that they weren't.

Items fell from an IDOC and went into players packs as the system was designed. Why are those items being deleted from our packs when we did nothing wrong? Again, if there was a directive to delete certain items, why weren't they deleted prior to the IDOC? IDOCs have already been neutered with the deletion of vet rewards, resources, etc. Now even things not listed are getting deleted from players packs without reason.

jelinidas

It seems different rules for different people.  Hmmmm

Pawain

jelinidas said:

It seems different rules for different people.  Hmmmm

Nope, it seems that all the items that were not intended to be dropped to players were stuck in backpacks and have gone poof.

Aim the tinfoil hat in another direction.

Garth_Grey

Translation, some players received overweight items in their packs and logged off to try and save them, and then found when they logged back in, those items had poofed, as they should have.

Maximus_Neximus

Garth_Grey said:

Translation, some players received overweight items in their packs and logged off to try and save them, and then found when they logged back in, those items had poofed, as they should have.

Not true. I was never overweight unless I had multiple pieces of rubble. And those did not poof. 

Sina

good luck @Maximus_Neximus ; they will never answer to delicate topics that would put them in trouble.

Feline_Unit

Interesting topic, I'll try to keep my comment short.

Generally speaking, it's very odd how some players have items "returned" while other players are told no or are simply ignored, even with video content and more importantly game data log evidence.
 
For a team that is so swift to remove and delete things, you would think they would be just as swift on the other end of the spectrum. 

Although everyone pays the same amount for support, it would appear the amount and quality of support everyone receives is not the same.

Regardless of which is most important to you: This is bad for player enjoyment, bad for the game and bad for business.

Seth

Maybe we should petition not to delete these items from IDOC, and allow it to be looted as per previous. These items are not exploits, why should they be removed.

I think the Dev team need to explain this and not keep quiet.

Maximus_Neximus

Just to confirm, these are items that are suppose to be deleted for an IDOC:

• Account Bound Items
• House Only Items
• Commodity Deeds
• Stackable Items
• Goza Mats
• Bank checks
• Heavy items – this applies to items that weigh 255+ stones that are immovable by players
• Linked attendants
• Vet Rewards
• Water Barrels, tubs, and water containers that weigh 255+ stones

Items that were deleted from players backpacks fit zero of these categories. There are reports of this happening again on Balhae.

Maximus_Neximus

I do appreciate theories. But that's all I have seen so far.

I'd prefer we get constructive feedback here. Ideally, any insight from an official source on why players are losing some items but not other items.

Bilbo

LMAO Notice that the items that supposedly was removed are never mentioned, now why is that?  Could it be that in fact that the people who got said items knew that they should not have gotten them and logged off to try and save them but it did not help so they come here to whine.

Lady_Storm

Per Dev rules once an item is deleted it will not be returned to you.. I have heard from very reputable people the items were one of a kind and not meant to be publicly owned.  A report of the items seen on the house were most likely inquired about before the house fell. Mesanna has made it a priority to remove any non player items (clops houses should ring a bell to all of you). Dont take it hard be thankful they took them and not your account. 

Maximus_Neximus

Lady_Storm said:

Per Dev rules once an item is deleted it will not be returned to you.. I have heard from very reputable people the items were one of a kind and not meant to be publicly owned.  A report of the items seen on the house were most likely inquired about before the house fell. Mesanna has made it a priority to remove any non player items (clops houses should ring a bell to all of you). Dont take it hard be thankful they took them and not your account. 

From posts on Stratics, it appears as if only some items were deleted and not all. I’m just trying to get some clarification on why that is if those items were indeed not meant to be “publicly owned”. Should they all have been deleted? Should none of them have been? All I’ve seen is player speculation and frankly, we as players don’t know for sure. 

Why should I be thankful that they didn’t take my account for attending an IDOC? I broke zero rules in doing so. 

Victim_Of_Siege

So did I miss what items they were, or have they not been specifically stated?

popps

Lady_Storm said:

Per Dev rules once an item is deleted it will not be returned to you.. I have heard from very reputable people the items were one of a kind and not meant to be publicly owned.  A report of the items seen on the house were most likely inquired about before the house fell. Mesanna has made it a priority to remove any non player items (clops houses should ring a bell to all of you). Dont take it hard be thankful they took them and not your account. 

 I have heard from very reputable people the items were one of a kind and not meant to be publicly owned.

I am not going to get into the debate whether or not these items had to be deleted but, rather, I find it way, but waaaaay more interesting noting the ability for Broadsword to track down all these items, all the way to the character who got them, and delete them....

Now, if such a precision is achievable in such a case, how come Ultima Online has not been cleaned up from dupers and scripters already ?

I honestly do not understand.....  if they can track an item, I need to imagine that is valid for any and all items, right ?

Now, if it is possible to track duped items from their origin (the duper who duped them) and their destination (the account that benefitted from getting them), one would think that BOTH the originating account and the destination account would have been banned and, in doing so, eventually, see duping gone from Ultima Online....

Same with scripting....

Most scripting is used for farming items or gold, right ?

I can see tracking down stackable gold as possibly being an issue but with items ?

If there is such an ability to track down items, I need to imagine that it is also possible to "monitor" accounts and their ability to get an unusual number of the same high end item in a relatively short time (farming...).

So, one would imagine, once they can see that Account X has gotten Y same items in Z time they can do 1+1 and assume that such an account might have been scripting the farming of that item.... track down the account that farmed the item, track down the destination account that benefitted receiving those items (the "main" account), ban both accounts and get rid of the scripter for good...

Ain't this ability to track down items from their origin to their destination something way more interesting to discuss and think about the possible uses it could be put to so as to finally eradicate the plague of dupers and scripters from Ultima Online ?

Just wondering....

Maximus_Neximus

Someone pointed out a post that Mesanna made on Stratics roughly 3 years ago. I either never read or forgot about it. Her post was made in relation to the Clops house(s)/items:

Greetings everyone,

Please drop this issue, the person responsible has been removed from the game, houses taken and all his items confiscated. I realize there are alot of items out there that he altered to make them unique/rare. At this time I am not going to touch them but if you insist on making lists etc I will track every item down and delete them.

The houses that fell recently weren't own by Clops. We, in general as players, don't know who they belonged to. But some of the items remain deleted while others have sold their items publicly for several platinum. Why were some items immediately directed to be confiscated while others allowed to exist? Any official response on the issue would be appreciated.

Lady_Storm

Maximus what I meant was if anyone had not taken their "not for player item's" as in the old days hid them till the heat was off.
  The item perhaps later would have if seen and reported by a player on it and you.
Hence Mesanna would put you in the brig and tossed away the key.
  In other words your account would go bye bye.  
As I said Mesanna is not one to forgive a wrong and clops did a lot of that to her trust. She will on sight delete any item she deems in that catagory.  The items might have been some of the things clops messed with and sold. 
  As for the question of how she found them is simple. Duped items have a code number but not match to the original number but be in that set of numbers.  It would be a bit hard to pull all the dupes out as the numbers would not register as bad.  She would need a team of hundreds of people to look at every piece and pull up the original id #s and match them off.   

The GM/EM/Dev's made items are of a different ilk all together.  They do not have this code normal items have I have been told. So they become very traceable.   

Now whether this is true or not idk but it seems to have a basis in the speed the items were found and removed.

popps

Lady_Storm said:

Maximus what I meant was if anyone had not taken their "not for player item's" as in the old days hid them till the heat was off.
  The item perhaps later would have if seen and reported by a player on it and you.
Hence Mesanna would put you in the brig and tossed away the key.
  In other words your account would go bye bye.  
As I said Mesanna is not one to forgive a wrong and clops did a lot of that to her trust. She will on sight delete any item she deems in that catagory.  The items might have been some of the things clops messed with and sold. 
  As for the question of how she found them is simple. Duped items have a code number but not match to the original number but be in that set of numbers.  It would be a bit hard to pull all the dupes out as the numbers would not register as bad.  She would need a team of hundreds of people to look at every piece and pull up the original id #s and match them off.   

The GM/EM/Dev's made items are of a different ilk all together.  They do not have this code normal items have I have been told. So they become very traceable.   

Now whether this is true or not idk but it seems to have a basis in the speed the items were found and removed.

She would need a team of hundreds of people to look at every piece and pull up the original id #s and match them off.   

Wouldn't it be possible to write an alghoritm to have the search done, rather then need hundreds of people to do it manually ?

Maximus_Neximus

popps said:

Lady_Storm said:

Maximus what I meant was if anyone had not taken their "not for player item's" as in the old days hid them till the heat was off.
  The item perhaps later would have if seen and reported by a player on it and you.
Hence Mesanna would put you in the brig and tossed away the key.
  In other words your account would go bye bye.  
As I said Mesanna is not one to forgive a wrong and clops did a lot of that to her trust. She will on sight delete any item she deems in that catagory.  The items might have been some of the things clops messed with and sold. 
  As for the question of how she found them is simple. Duped items have a code number but not match to the original number but be in that set of numbers.  It would be a bit hard to pull all the dupes out as the numbers would not register as bad.  She would need a team of hundreds of people to look at every piece and pull up the original id #s and match them off.   

The GM/EM/Dev's made items are of a different ilk all together.  They do not have this code normal items have I have been told. So they become very traceable.   

Now whether this is true or not idk but it seems to have a basis in the speed the items were found and removed.

She would need a team of hundreds of people to look at every piece and pull up the original id #s and match them off.   

Wouldn't it be possible to write an alghoritm to have the search done, rather then need hundreds of people to do it manually ?

Yes and no. I’m not an expert programmer, but I have experience. My initial thought is, what would you have the algorithm search for? If the items are indeed illegal items, which we still don’t know but assume since some were deleted, then you likely wouldn’t have the id’s readily available. After 20+ years I doubt that there’s complete documentation of everything ever created. 

Im theory, you could maybe search for all items created by x. But that’s assuming that items store that variable, you know who created them, and it’s even searchable. Without knowing the language and other details it’s hard to say. 
The main issue I have, is that some items were directed to be deleted/confiscated while others remain. Each legally obtained from an IDOC. From what I have seen, all items were deco only. 

KHAN

ROFL

Lady_Storm

Ahh I see what your point is.... Maximus but you have the issue wrong.   
If you read the ToS the LP/GM/EA have the right to remove any object in the game at will. This has no basis in your Idea if it is part of a IDOC drop.  Mesanna Deemed them non player ownable. Thus removing them and she owes you no explanation for doing her job. 
Even if dropped in a IDOC they were not meant for anyone to own PERIOD.  Mesanna was correcting an error of them getting loose.