Pub 108 - House Decay Rules Feedback

Urge

1) account bound items should go into the bank of the account. Seeing someone lose soulstones hurts. Shard shields is even worse.

2) commodity deeds should be sent to npc so players can buy

Other than that I don't care much.

Radst

1. For FEL IDOC, please consider these rules:

 - While the fences last, the only PvP damage allowed is also the same "un-armed" damage within the area. And no casting of any kind. Therefore, you can only hurt other players with the same unarmed damage (2-10 hp per hit) as you would on the barrels.

 - Additional 5 tiles radius from the fences as No cast/pvp zone: No players can stand outside/near the fences to shoot arrows or field spells to the players that are inside the area.

- Anti-Blocking: any attempt of blocking from other players to enter the area should also be dealt with: Newly placed empty impassible containers (and bagballs) are deleted instantly.

- No hiding.

So, here's the big picture: players will try to run into the fenced area, and other legit pvp'ers who are outside can try to stop them from entry. But once the players are inside, all players should be "safe" except still being vulnerable to the unarmed damage. (but that will be quite useless, so you might as well focus on doing the barrels). After fences are gone, all area returns to normal FEL rule.

Other folks have already pointed out that those group will own 100% of FEL IDOCs on smaller shards if no changes will be made in FEL. Think of all those auto kill scripts & auto EQ bots.

2. Please also address one bigger issue: the decay timer on ALL shards:

IDOC decay timer should begin based on the each shard's LOCAL time (morning), so that those "international" group can no longer do 20 IDOCs EVERY DAY on all shards. IDOCs should belong to the local players.

Grace

Only had time to do one on TC.

I love the concept! 

Did not do enough to find bugs or huge issues yet.

But I was alone, and got all the loot. I emptied my
dropped goods into a bag and left it the bag on the 
ground. Since this was TC it was all useless but on
any shard most of it would be of little to no worth
on this particular IDOC.

On Atlantic Trammel, where I would bother to do one of these,
would likely cause a huge amount of lag with people
tossing stuff all over on the ground. 

Maybe make the housing area where if you drop things
on the ground it disappears? 

Uriah_Heep

Or let it stay on the ground for a while, what someone considers not worth their time might be something someone else could use or would want

Grace

Empty bags, crates, keys for chests, and all the other stuff
you can buy of an npc or loot from a lizardman is going to add
up.

The lag would be really bad I would think. 

Kirthag

@Kyronix

so interesting this happening right now..

a house fell, I am waiting for packup, a barrel appears next to me! so I smack it... OUTSIDE of the fence while it is still packing up.



also found this - says has bolts, but is empty??


Also finding loose seeds again, but assuming these are not identified and are individual - but they are a stacking item, right?

Mordred

@Radst ; LOL, you dreaming!!
Leave fel alone!, you dont want to die, stick to Tram Idocs, Fel Idocs will be awesome, LOt of EQ's and DP fields around Barrels, NO RULES!!

Pawain

TimSt said:

The house across the street from mine fell and I was able to take some time measurements

Anatomy 0     Tactics 120 Wrestling 0     Took 2:23
Anatomy 0     Tactics 100 Wrestling 0     Took 2:50
Anatomy 0     Tactics 0     Wrestling 120 Took 3:39
Anatomy 0     Tactics 0     Wrestling 100 Took 3:48
Anatomy 0     Tactics 100 Wrestling 100 Took 2:43
Anatomy 100 Tactics 0     Wrestling 0     Took 2:46
Anatomy 100 Tactics 100 Wrestling 0     Took 2:34
Anatomy 90   Tactics 90   Wrestling 90   Took 2:30
Anatomy 100 Tactics 100 Wrestling 100 Took 2:07
Anatomy 120 Tactics 120 Wrestling 120 Took 2:06

For the last two I lines I ran each test 5 times to make sure what I was seeing.

You do not need 120 skill levels. The difference between 3x100 and 3x120 is negligible. The devs took pity on us and did not require 120.

If you can not fit 300 skill points into your template maybe you can fit 200 with the Anatomy 100, Tactics 100, and Wrestling 0. Otherwise you will need to pony up the cost of a Tactics 120 scroll.

How long does it take for 0 in those skills to break a barrel? Thanks

Polaris

Pawain said:

How long does it take for 0 in those skills to break a barrel? Thanks

Too long... you wouldn't get anything typically. Someone with 120 in those skills and Horrific Beast cast (the giant blue beast with 4 arms).... is doing 9-24 damage per hit. I believe I was doing 1-2 damage only when I first arrived with 0 in those skills and no beast form. You would need long minutes to break barrels while the big blue beasts can break them in 20-30 seconds.

I hope they remove the beast form damage modifier with the barrels. Has anyone tested this since Mesanna said they had tweaked it this morning??

TimSt

Pawain said:

TimSt said:

The house across the street from mine fell and I was able to take some time measurements

Anatomy 0     Tactics 120 Wrestling 0     Took 2:23
Anatomy 0     Tactics 100 Wrestling 0     Took 2:50
Anatomy 0     Tactics 0     Wrestling 120 Took 3:39
Anatomy 0     Tactics 0     Wrestling 100 Took 3:48
Anatomy 0     Tactics 100 Wrestling 100 Took 2:43
Anatomy 100 Tactics 0     Wrestling 0     Took 2:46
Anatomy 100 Tactics 100 Wrestling 0     Took 2:34
Anatomy 90   Tactics 90   Wrestling 90   Took 2:30
Anatomy 100 Tactics 100 Wrestling 100 Took 2:07
Anatomy 120 Tactics 120 Wrestling 120 Took 2:06

For the last two I lines I ran each test 5 times to make sure what I was seeing.

You do not need 120 skill levels. The difference between 3x100 and 3x120 is negligible. The devs took pity on us and did not require 120.

If you can not fit 300 skill points into your template maybe you can fit 200 with the Anatomy 100, Tactics 100, and Wrestling 0. Otherwise you will need to pony up the cost of a Tactics 120 scroll.

How long does it take for 0 in those skills to break a barrel? Thanks

Having 0 in all three skills it took 3:52.

TimSt

@Kyronix Is punching the barrels supposed to cause damage to the player's equipment?  I had an antique bracelet lose 40 durability points just from punching the loot barrels.

Violet

Kirthag said:

@ Kyronix

so interesting this happening right now..

a house fell, I am waiting for packup, a barrel appears next to me! so I smack it... OUTSIDE of the fence while it is still packing up.

 Had the same thing happen to a keep I watched fall

Maximus_Neximus

@Kirthag @Violet

Were the houses that dropped custom or pre-made designs? I haven't seen this issue but I've only done custom plot houses.

Ivenor

Urge said:

1) account bound items should go into the bank of the account. Seeing someone lose soulstones hurts. Shard shields is even worse.

2) commodity deeds should be sent to npc so players can buy

Other than that I don't care much.

+1000!!!

popps

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix Ya, it does seem that after about 15 minutes you CAN bring packies in. I think this needs to be changed. Even before that, I could bring the beetle right up to the edge of the exterior barrels. I think this is too close. What is to keep the scripter from bringing EJ accounts to the same edge, friending the "paying" account to ALL the packies, and then "script" dumping the contents into the packies. Rinse and repeat. 

So:

1) packies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the exterior barrels
2) The same for EJ accounts
3 If someone is seen/caught using ANY scripts BAN THEM!

Just my observations from doing a few on TC.

Overall it's a great start, but I feel some "tweaks" are in order. Thanks!

@Bleak , @Kyronix ;

as I mentioned in this post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/38393/#Comment_38393 , why not introduce a more permanent solution to prevent the use of pack animals and EJ accounts by FLAGGING all items from an IDOC with a timer under which these IDOC items would simply, FLAT OUT, NOT be possible to be placed on either an EJ character or on a Pack animal of any kind. The existance of the timer still running on that item would send out an error message saying "sorry, this item cannot be transferred to this character or to this pack animal....".

The subscribed character would actually need to recall to House, Bank or a Ship, unload it, and get back to the area for more barrel punching thus giving time to other players to get some items on their own.

After that timer lapses then everything would go back to normal but until the timer is still on, the game would simply REFUSE for the item to get into an EJ backpack or into that of a pack animal.

I think that this could be effectively address any scripting issue since it would not be possible to script a loot --> drop in packie/EJ character --> go back for more looting script.....

Petra_Fyde

I had a bit of a run around, since the idoc the minister was shouting wasn't going to fall till after I had to log. As far as I can tell this instance of the test shard dates from before the castle contests. I didn't find any castle or keep that wasn't the original design.

The shouted house was in Malas, so the ministers do shout for other facets. I managed to find one house that was falling and watched the packing up. Barrels take a while to chop, the contents can't be seen and fall into your pack individually, nothing in containers.  It would take me a while to empty my pack into something else, picking up each individual item. I have no idea how fast a script could do it. 

I don't normally do IDOCs, but years ago when I had a new character on Siege my orange petal production started from a plant with seeds I found abandoned where an IDOC had been.

Nikard

Likes                                                           Dislikes

-Items explode into your pack                      -empty containers like "a bag" should be deleted

-havent been frozen by the fall [yet?]           -old checks should be deleted [gold sink]

-skill requirement                                          -PLANTS, please make these poof

Queen_Arya

I went to both nights with Krynox  to test new idoc system-the first night couple dozen farspeakers an a floor tile were stuck in my backpack and words kept coming up on my screen the barrel had more to deliver to me when my backpack had more room-I dropped everything in my pack-closded an opened game-moved out of the area and nothing fixed this-I paged a gm an after awhile had to log. the next day I had to copy my toon over to test again because they wiped it clear and this is the gump I got on a luna barrel the second night- glitchy still im thinking

Nikard

I think that all items that come from IDOCs should be shard bound.

Violet

Maximus_Neximus said:

@ Kirthag @ Violet

Were the houses that dropped custom or pre-made designs? I haven't seen this issue but I've only done custom plot houses.

Was an old style keep (custom keeps weren't available then)

GrimReefer

This is what i got this morning. The first piece appeared in my pack then as I was clearing my pack, a second piece popped in my pack. The items weighted 255 stones each and I couldnt get them out of pack. I was also constantly getting the Reward message for a Bloody Pentagram.

TimSt

Add Hay Sheave to the list of resources that go poof. Last night I did a handful of barrels and got a lot of individual Hay Sheave in my pack.  If my house was to fall today there is going to be 2512 individual Hay Sheaves in the barrels.

Cinderella

TimSt said:

Add Hay Sheave to the list of resources that go poof. Last night I did a handful of barrels and got a lot of individual Hay Sheave in my pack.  If my house was to fall today there is going to be 2512 individual Hay Sheaves in the barrels.

there are some that do not stack.

Kirthag

Maximus_Neximus said:

@ Kirthag @ Violet

Were the houses that dropped custom or pre-made designs? I haven't seen this issue but I've only done custom plot houses.

The one I snapped was a classic Large Tower in Tram, Skara Brae

I watched a 13x13 fall near the ocean, and two barrels popped up outside - north of the Rangers of SB in Felucca..

I was in Felucca almost all night, in the Skara Brae area. By the time I got to the Minoc Green in Trammel (oh, about 4am eastern time) almost everything was already fallen or needed more time, and I had to go to work.

sibble

A trammie asking for invulnerability in fel....

Imagine that.

You guys are all anti-cheaters, what do you think happens to IDOC scripters in fel?

They die.

I can confirm this has been the case in my last 10 year experience in UO.  I've been approached by IDOC scripters in the past pleading they be left alone at fel IDOCs.  Some even went as far as try to bribe my guild for some type of protection in fel.

If you make it so there is no PVP at fel IDOCs then you're helping to enable cheaters.
(no offense to non-pvpers, I'm just saying IDOC scripters don't pvp)

Dasilva

its nota win/win like some of you are saying, thats absolutely ridiculous, with the current idoc system you can at least stealth around A and his buddies and hope to get away with something or another in Fel, but with the new Idoc changes in fel your basically handing A the house and everything in it, his business is going to skyrocket, quite honestly this is extremely poorly thought out when it comes to fel, turn the entire area around the idoc into an area like the britain farms, where no one can cast, and then it MIGHT become halfway fair, but quite honestly A has a lot of people on his payroll, way more than any other so called scripter/idoccer, the only thing you are doing is handing him the keys to the bank. any of you who think otherwise are silly, and you will see that if this goes through for fel I will be saying I told you so. CHANGE the rule in fel NO MAGERY,NO nothing except a fist fight, if you want to make it somewhat fair in Fel then everyone has to fight with their fists THAT is fair, otherwise just locked up the fel idocs in a box and deposit them directly into A's bank cause thats basically what your doing.

on the other hand for Tram I think the new system is a lot of fun and I am very interested in seeing how it plays out BUT you need a better RNG system because right now the good barrels are pretty easy to pick out.

BTW word of warning if you drop a house down on the barrels the barrels either go under the house sign or break and disappear the area still needs to be locked for house placement until such a time as all the barrels have decayed

popps

Dasilva said:

its nota win/win like some of you are saying, thats absolutely ridiculous, with the current idoc system you can at least stealth around A and his buddies and hope to get away with something or another in Fel, but with the new Idoc changes in fel your basically handing A the house and everything in it, his business is going to skyrocket, quite honestly this is extremely poorly thought out when it comes to fel, turn the entire area around the idoc into an area like the britain farms, where no one can cast, and then it MIGHT become halfway fair, but quite honestly A has a lot of people on his payroll, way more than any other so called scripter/idoccer, the only thing you are doing is handing him the keys to the bank. any of you who think otherwise are silly, and you will see that if this goes through for fel I will be saying I told you so. CHANGE the rule in fel NO MAGERY,NO nothing except a fist fight, if you want to make it somewhat fair in Fel then everyone has to fight with their fists THAT is fair, otherwise just locked up the fel idocs in a box and deposit them directly into A's bank cause thats basically what your doing.

on the other hand for Tram I think the new system is a lot of fun and I am very interested in seeing how it plays out BUT you need a better RNG system because right now the good barrels are pretty easy to pick out.

BTW word of warning if you drop a house down on the barrels the barrels either go under the house sign or break and disappear the area still needs to be locked for house placement until such a time as all the barrels have decayed

I totally agree.

That is why I suggested that the action to punch the Barrel should be made NOT unhiding the character.

Otherwise, I concur, I think it will be as you say, weaker players will not have 1 single chance to walk out of a Felucca Ruleset IDOC with at least something.

Those who already are the richest and thus more powerfull will get it all, and become even further richer.

Personally, I think the IDOCs should be made a chance to re-distribute UO's wealth particularly among the poor and weaker of UO, not to make the wealthiest even richer....

Dasilva

we wont mention the fact that breaking barrels is easily scriptable make it more interesting every barrel spawns casting creatures
emphasis on casting

Polaris

I think Fel IDOCs can still be interesting like this. The 3 or 4 different guilds will still be fighting, and hopefully the weaker guilds can even team up. There may even be a new guild of 50 blues form since they all know the locations now, who knows?

There should be a few spells that are not allowed to cast in these areas. Energy fields for one, with a single energy field (or 2) the fenced in barrelled area can be choked off. 4 red characters multi-boxing inside could kill all players and simply loot them to recover whatever items they want.

Energy vortexes, EQs, wither, and anything else which could not be cast in town should be applied to these. If someone reveals you and kills you..... that should be allowed. They should not be able to choke off areas and kill everyone inside though; that sounds highly abusive and will be abused abundantly. If a player can run in and break a  barrel before being revealed/killed.... he should be able to recall out safely.

Barrel punching should definitely not reveal a character that is hidden. Reds will get the idea because they can see the barrel being torn to bits (saw dust goes everywhere while punching.) They should actively have to detect hidden or cast reveal... hiding/stealth should still work like normal.

JackFlashUk

popps said:

Dasilva said:

its nota win/win like some of you are saying, thats absolutely ridiculous, with the current idoc system you can at least stealth around A and his buddies and hope to get away with something or another in Fel, but with the new Idoc changes in fel your basically handing A the house and everything in it, his business is going to skyrocket, quite honestly this is extremely poorly thought out when it comes to fel, turn the entire area around the idoc into an area like the britain farms, where no one can cast, and then it MIGHT become halfway fair, but quite honestly A has a lot of people on his payroll, way more than any other so called scripter/idoccer, the only thing you are doing is handing him the keys to the bank. any of you who think otherwise are silly, and you will see that if this goes through for fel I will be saying I told you so. CHANGE the rule in fel NO MAGERY,NO nothing except a fist fight, if you want to make it somewhat fair in Fel then everyone has to fight with their fists THAT is fair, otherwise just locked up the fel idocs in a box and deposit them directly into A's bank cause thats basically what your doing.

on the other hand for Tram I think the new system is a lot of fun and I am very interested in seeing how it plays out BUT you need a better RNG system because right now the good barrels are pretty easy to pick out.

BTW word of warning if you drop a house down on the barrels the barrels either go under the house sign or break and disappear the area still needs to be locked for house placement until such a time as all the barrels have decayed

I totally agree.

That is why I suggested that the action to punch the Barrel should be made NOT unhiding the character.

Otherwise, I concur, I think it will be as you say, weaker players will not have 1 single chance to walk out of a Felucca Ruleset IDOC with at least something.

Those who already are the richest and thus more powerfull will get it all, and become even further richer.

Personally, I think the IDOCs should be made a chance to re-distribute UO's wealth particularly among the poor and weaker of UO, not to make the wealthiest even richer....

As you hit the barrels wood chippings go everywhere and the barrel changes appearance as you break it,  REDS will see that and get you.