Questions on a Stealth and Ninja Template to those more experienced.....
I am planning on making a Template (no Artifacts worn) with the following Skills on :
Stealing 90 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Snooping 100
Stealing 90 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Snooping 100
Detect Hidden 100
Lockpicking 100
Hiding 100
Stealth 70 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Magery 90 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Ninjitsu 70
Ninjitsu 70
Total 720 + 90 jewellery
Unless I made a mistake, A Ring/Bracelet with 15 Stealing/Stealth/Magery on + 16 LRC would cost, in materials needed, 4 x Magical Residue and 8 x Amber
With no Resisting Spells at all, this character is extremely weak so, it basically rely entirely on be able to hide no matter what AND, staying hidden no matter what....
Would likely need orange petals to make it up with at least some defense against getting poisoned too easily... that is another reason to have Stealth all the way to 120, so as not to be revelead even if poisoned...
Now, my # 1 question is, according to https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/ninjitsu/ if I always stay in Rabbit or Rat form I would get a bonus of +20 Stealth so my Stealthing skill would go to 120 ?
Question # 2 is, would I be able with 70 skill Ninjitsu to Shadowjump 100% of times (Stealth teleporting) without ever failing?
Question # 3, if I go Ostard or Llama form (requirement =70 skill points), and thus I drop the 20 Stealth bonus thus dropping from 120 Stealth to 100 Stealth, how much is this drop in Stealth going to make my Template be likely to be revealed by either Monsters or Players ?
And, Last Question # 4, is there anything wrong which you see in this Template or that you would want to modify ?
For example, if I dropped Ninjutsu entirely, and took Stealth to 90 rather then 70, what could I use the remaining 50 skill points for, more effectively ?
I would have LOVED to fit in that Template 120 Spellweaving (less then 120, to my opinion, is not worth it...) in place of Ninjitsu, but I thought and re-though about it and there is simply no way I can do it without wearing any Artifact with skills on...
And, unfortunately, imbuing can only imbue skill points on jewellery, not on any other item worn....
I could possibly drop some Magery points (up to 14, as I would not want to go below 106 Magery to be able to always, 100% of times, be able to cast Invisibility in case of necessity) to increase Ninjitsu up tp 84 points but I do not see what benefits the Template could get from having 84 Ninjutsu points rather then 70 since this is clearly a "defensive" Template rather then an "offensive" one.... so, I would have little use for Ki Attack or Death Strike (even if I went with 105 Magery and 85 Ninjitsu....).
Lastly, I am planning with this Template to use the Smuggler's Edge https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ to steal from Monsters the special items....
If I was to do it in Rabbit or Rat form with the +20 Stealth bonus, would I get the FULL 120 Stealth that would grant a 5% chance to steal a Special Item with the Smuggler's Edge ?
Or does the Smuggler's Edge want all REAL skill with any skill on items or in animal forms not counting toward the BONUS to getting a chance to steal a Special item with it ?
@Mariah , do you have such an information ?
If not, could @Kyronix please give an answet on this ?
I would frankly hate to invest time and effort in such a template only to then find that the Smuggler's Edge needs all Stealth points to have to be real, none in items or animal form in order to get the max Bonus possible to steal a special item....
Thanks !
Unless I made a mistake, A Ring/Bracelet with 15 Stealing/Stealth/Magery on + 16 LRC would cost, in materials needed, 4 x Magical Residue and 8 x Amber
With no Resisting Spells at all, this character is extremely weak so, it basically rely entirely on be able to hide no matter what AND, staying hidden no matter what....
Would likely need orange petals to make it up with at least some defense against getting poisoned too easily... that is another reason to have Stealth all the way to 120, so as not to be revelead even if poisoned...
Now, my # 1 question is, according to https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/ninjitsu/ if I always stay in Rabbit or Rat form I would get a bonus of +20 Stealth so my Stealthing skill would go to 120 ?
Question # 2 is, would I be able with 70 skill Ninjitsu to Shadowjump 100% of times (Stealth teleporting) without ever failing?
Question # 3, if I go Ostard or Llama form (requirement =70 skill points), and thus I drop the 20 Stealth bonus thus dropping from 120 Stealth to 100 Stealth, how much is this drop in Stealth going to make my Template be likely to be revealed by either Monsters or Players ?
And, Last Question # 4, is there anything wrong which you see in this Template or that you would want to modify ?
For example, if I dropped Ninjutsu entirely, and took Stealth to 90 rather then 70, what could I use the remaining 50 skill points for, more effectively ?
I would have LOVED to fit in that Template 120 Spellweaving (less then 120, to my opinion, is not worth it...) in place of Ninjitsu, but I thought and re-though about it and there is simply no way I can do it without wearing any Artifact with skills on...
And, unfortunately, imbuing can only imbue skill points on jewellery, not on any other item worn....
I could possibly drop some Magery points (up to 14, as I would not want to go below 106 Magery to be able to always, 100% of times, be able to cast Invisibility in case of necessity) to increase Ninjitsu up tp 84 points but I do not see what benefits the Template could get from having 84 Ninjutsu points rather then 70 since this is clearly a "defensive" Template rather then an "offensive" one.... so, I would have little use for Ki Attack or Death Strike (even if I went with 105 Magery and 85 Ninjitsu....).
Lastly, I am planning with this Template to use the Smuggler's Edge https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ to steal from Monsters the special items....
If I was to do it in Rabbit or Rat form with the +20 Stealth bonus, would I get the FULL 120 Stealth that would grant a 5% chance to steal a Special Item with the Smuggler's Edge ?
Or does the Smuggler's Edge want all REAL skill with any skill on items or in animal forms not counting toward the BONUS to getting a chance to steal a Special item with it ?
@Mariah , do you have such an information ?
If not, could @Kyronix please give an answet on this ?
I would frankly hate to invest time and effort in such a template only to then find that the Smuggler's Edge needs all Stealth points to have to be real, none in items or animal form in order to get the max Bonus possible to steal a special item....
Thanks !
Comments
It hurts....
@Kyronix , can I hope that the UO Wiki might be somewhat incorrect and that the Smuggler's Edge does NOT rely necessarily on all real stealth skill for the bonus to steal a special item but that on items as well as in animal form work "just as well" to contribute to the stealing bonus ?
Please......
As far as the temp is concerned, no idea what this temp is really for.... Looting dungeon chests and helping with tmaps?
I'd probably dump Magery (use recall charges to get around, smokebombs for invisible, etc) add in skill items for a weapon skill because shadowstrike, ninjitsu and how this character is very defenseless, and offensively useless. Hell, alchemy would be better.
Anatomy GM
Chivalry 70
Healing GM
Parry GM
Stealing 120
swordsmanship 120
tactics. 110
Only Craftables and Imbuable and, that I am aware of, skill points can only be imbued on Jewellery... or is there some Craftable Artifact which comes with skill points ?
As regards Magery, I want to have Gating ability more then recall and, most importantly, to be able to 100% cast Invisibility which, according to https://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/magery.php for 7th Circle spells needs 106 Magery skill.....
Sure, Smoke Bombs would save up some skill points which I could address elsewhere but Magery, but then I would have to rely on a consumable source while with the Invisibility spell and a 100% LRC suit I would have unlimited ability to get invisible...
What do you mean by "Alchemy would be better" ? Can you please get more in detail ?
Thanks.
Question. Does the Smuggler's edge need an "actual" weapon skill (like your sowrdsmanship) in order to actually work ? And does it also need Tactics ?
Or is it only Stealing that it needs ?
What I have not clear is, whether you actually have to sustain an "endured" fight with a Monster in order to steal any of the specials, or whether it is a "quick" hit and run thing....
Sneak up stealthing, hit the Monster with the Smuggler's Edge to steal the special item, and then go back into hiding for more Smuggler's Edge "hit and run" stealing attacks to get special items....
Because, if an "endured" fight is necessary, then clearly the Template I am thinking of is totally useless since it would be incapable of sustaining any type of endured fight....
My collection.
If you wish I will copy my smugglers edge to test center for you to try out some templates for yourself
Not to mention, that from what you say it sounds to me that the Smuggler's Edge, rather then a "One Hit & Run" tool to steal Special Items that relies solely on Stealing, is an item that would require prolonged, extensive fighting....
Lastly, I am not interested at all in the Lanterns but, rather, of the other special items that this tools permits to steal.... that is, Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.
By the way, the UOWiki Page about Stealing from Monsters at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/ says :
While instead, the UOWiki Page for the Smuggler's Edge at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ says :
so, which is which ?
The Chance to steal a special item for someone having 120 Stealing (aside from whether it has to be all real skill or can be a "mix" of Stealth Real Skill + Stealth Skill on Items + Stealth Skill in Animal form... @Kyronix , is it possible, please, to have a clarification on this ?) AND using a Smuggler's Edge is what ?
The 5 % ? The 15 % ? The 5% + 15% = 20% ?
To me, it is not clear at all....
@Mariah do you perhaps have an answer to this also ?
Thanks !
Infact, the Smuggler's Edge UO Wiki Page at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ specifically mentions the stealing skill....
So, as I understand it, it is NOT using the Smuggler's Edge and no Stealing Skill VS. using the Stealing skill ONLY to steal from monsters....
But, rather, at least as I understand it at least from those 2 pages, it is using the Smuggler's Edge PLUS Stealing Skill VS. only using the Stealing Skill WITHOUT using also the Smuggler's Edge.
But then, HOW COME that Stealing Skill PLUS Smuggler's Edge gives TOPS 5% chance at stealing one of the special items while, instead, using ONLY the Stealing Skill, without the Smuggler's Edge, a MAX of a 15% chance at stealing any of the special items ?
To me is not clear at all.....
Also, another thing not mentioned is whether LUCK, either from items worn or from the Statue/Sphynx or because in Felucca gives any additional Bonus at a greater chance to receive any of the special items from stealing to Monsters, whether only with the Stealing Skill or from the Stealing skill PLUS the use of the Smuggler's Edge.
@Kyronix , please, would it be possible to have more light shed on this, considering also that the Smuggler's Edge involves expenditure of real money from the UOStore to obtain ?
Thank you SO much.
My suit is strictly imbued lrc, lmc and HP regin with the only "arti" being the bandana.
You'll hate stealth without ninja. White tiger form mastery is no fail at 90 skill with a bleed, dci boost and chance to evade.
Rework your whole template if you plan on doing a thief. You'll have a lot of fun.
"When wielded it gives a chance to steal an item when you hit a monster in Felucca dungeons or at Champion Spawns (ie the same locations as listed in the page Stealing From Monsters). A chance to steal a special item will occur in 5% of these stealing attempts."
When you using the smugglers edge you arent stealing, you have a chance at every hit to get "steal" an item. If you have stealing skill above gm you have a chance to get a rare item.
When using stealing skills and stealing from a monster using skill you have a higher chance to get a rare item but not the special items from fighting the monsters using smugglers edge.
Until I understand exactly how that works (stealing from Monsters, that is...), what type of Stealing it accounts for (only real skill as Mariah indicates, or whether it also accounts for stealing skill from items and from animal forms....), whether or not using the Smuggler's Edge provides an additional bonus to get special items' drop as compared to only using the stealing skill, whether or not Luck might factor in to have higher chances to get a special item drop, I am "stuck" into not knowing how to best design the Template to be more effective and efficient in stealing from Monsters...
My goal is to have the highest drop rate possible for special items when stealing from Monsters and, of course, to do it with a Template who would be able to survive the endeavour....
I am afraid that you are wrong, at least from what it says at the UOWiki page for the Smuggler's Edge at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ ... :
And that Link is within the preceeding Paragraph at that same Page for the Smuggler's Edge description where it says :
That is, https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/
So, as I understand it, the items from using ONLY the Stealing skill OR the Stealing skill PLUS the Smuggler's Edge are the same, with the ADDITION, for the Smuggler's Edge, to also be able to get as a steal, also a Smuggler’s Lantern or a Smuggler’s Tool Box.
BUT, and this is what I have a hard time to find any logical reasoning, HOW COME, if one ONLY uses the Stealing skill they get a MAX +15% change to steal a special item, whereas if they use Stealing Skill AND also a Smuggler's Edge on top of that, the Max chance which one gets at stealing a special item would be a mere +5% ?
How much sense does this make ?
One spends real money at the UOStore to purchase a Smuggler's Edge to actually REDUCE their max chances possible at stealing a special item, from +15% DOWN to +5% ?
Hallo ??
Something here does not add up for me....
It litterally says it there, at the UOWiki Smuggler's Edge page at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/
NOTE : The "unique" property "Monster Stealing"....
It is quite clear to me, from reading those 2 UO Wiki Links (one about the Smuggler's Edge and the other about Stealing from Monsters), that holding the Smuggler's Edge in hand DOES permit stealing thanking to its "unique" Monster Stealing property.... and doing it in conjunction with having ALSO the Stealing skill, provides "up to" a maximum of a +5% chance to steal a special item from a Monster...
All this, from the UO Wiki Smuggler's Edge Link.
Too bad that THEN, the Stealing to Monsters OTHER UO Wiki Link, says that stealing from Monsters WITHOUT the Smuggler's Edge, only using the Stealing Link, can give UP TO a maximum chance of +15% at getting a special item from stealing from a Monster....
So, it looks like, at least to my viewing, a nonsense.... one spends real money on the UOStore to purchase a Smuggler's Edge to THEN see one 's own chances at getting a special item from stealing from a Monster go DOWN from up to +15% to a mere only maximum +5% chance at stealing a special item ?
How can this make any sense if I may ask ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOrdomv8gYI
I assume (but am not sure...), that were it is mentioned in that same Wiki Page
Refers to the scenario where the Template might be using the Smuggler's Edge PLUS 120.0 Stealing skill.... this, because the +3% works from 110.0-119.9 so if not +5%, it is not clear what the bonus would be to use the Smuggler's Edge PLUS 120.0 Stealing Skill...
OF COURSE that, since the Stealing from Monsters UO Wiki page (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/) indicates :
A player not interested in either a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox would be THREE times more motivated (+15% vs, +5% at a special item steal) to simple steal from a Monster and not spend 400 Sovereigns to purchase a Smuggler's Edge....
The problem that I have, is that I do NOT understand the logic of it....
Why, is my perplexity, make the effort to Design, Create and spend time to make available a Smuggler's Edge but then, NOT make it appealing to players to actually want to spend their money on it to purchase it by enhancing significately their chance at a special drop as compared to Stealing from Monsters WITHOUT using the Smuggler's Edge ?
Sure, those players who want to get a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox will necessarily have to use a Smuggler's Edge BUT, this limits the number of potential buyers since, besides these players, there is also "other" player who, instead, are not interested in Smuggler’s Lanterns or Toolboxes so WHY would these players want to spend real money of a Smuggler's Edge when it would actually LOWER their chance at a special drop from a maximum of +15% from using solely the 120.0 Stealing Skill on a level 40 Monster down to (perhaps...?) a MAX of +5% chance at a special drop from using a Smuggler's Edge IN CONJUNCTION with 120.0 Stealing skill ?
I mean, am I the only one here who is perplexed by this ?
Does it make sense for any of you guys that NO Smuggler's Edge (which cost real money to buy) provides at 120.0 Stealing Skill on a Monster of Level 40 a change to steal a special item of +15% but then, SPENDING real money to buy a Smuggler's Edge to be used together with the Stealing Skill this chance DROPS down to +5% (One Third....) assuming that this is the percentage from using the Smuggler's Edge + 120.0 Stealing since with 119.9 Stealing Skill + the Smuggler's Edge the UOWiki page indicates the percentage at a steal of a special item as +3% ....... ??
I am sorry, but to me it does not make sense and does not look like an effective way to promote in players the sale of this particular UOStore item....
Not counting the hide timer and such things when you get revealed from your stealing attempt.
If you hit 50% you still have 4 stealing attempts at 5% while stealing is one at 15%. So your change to get an item is 20% using the smugglers edge compared to stealing at 15%.
Isn't it possible to use the Stealing Skill with the +15% chance at a steal (no Smuggler's Edge used) multiple times on the same one Monster until one gets the wanted special item ?
Furthermore, if one is more interested in getting the special stealables from Monsters Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion and NOT also the Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox (which I understand only the use of the Smuggler's Edge can give), using the Stealing Skill WITHOUT the Smuggler's Edge would not only benefit from a +15% higher percentage to steal one of these special items but also, the RNG wold not have to factor is also the Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox thus further giving a higher chance at getting any of the Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.
All this, to say that this leaves me totally puzzled as it does not look like a good promotion for the sales of the Smuggler's Edge at the UOStore....
Unless I am missing to understand something, it looks quite clear to me that, unless one was to be interested in getting a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox which requires necessarily the use of the Smuggler's Edge, not only there is no point in purchasing from the UOStore this particular item if one is only interested in getting Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion, but purchasing and using a Smuggler's Edge to get these particular special stealables from Monsters would actually be detrimental..... it would make it LESS LIKELY, if understood the mechanics correctly, to be able to steal any of these stealables from Monsters as compared to only using the Stealable Skill.
And this, as I said, makes NO SENSE to me because it makes the UOStore purchaseable item Smuggler's Edge, LESS appealing to potential buyers thus reducing the possible revenues to the benefit of UO from the sales of this item.
Am I wrong in my thinking, @Mesanna , @Bleak , @Kyronix , because there is something which I am missing to consider about the Smuggler's Edge and the mechanics involved with Stealing from Monsters in which case, I'd LOVE to hear from you a clarification about how this item as well as the entire stealing from Monsters work, or am I right, and in such case, for a player wanting to only get the special stealables from Monsters Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion there is NO POINT or reason to spend money to purchase the Smuggler's Edge ?
My personal point of view is that, the Smuggler's Edge, involving the expenditure of real money for its purchase, should provide a significant higher chance at stealing any of the special stealable items from Monsters when used together with the Stealing skill, as compared to when only using the Stealing skill without the concurrant use of the Smuggler's Edge.
In such a case, this, to my opinion, would promote the sales of the Smuggler's Edge interested in more likely getting those items thus bettering the Revenues for Ultima Online.
For example, if a 120.0 Stealing player stealing from level 40 Monsters has a chance of +15% to steal one of the Special items, the mechanics involving to use of also the Smuggler's Edge (which cost real money to purchase) in conjunction with the same 120.0 Stealing skill on a level 40 Monster, should grant at least DOUBLE that chance to pull a steal of a special item or, for example, a +30% chance at a steal of a special item.
It basically boils down to, if you want lanterns get the smuggler's edge, if you only want balms make a thief.
The devs are rather busy doing what devs do, developing the game. I seriously doubt any of them have time to trawl through the minutiae of the coding looking for an answer that matters only to one player. You're supposed to play the game not analyse the hell out of every tiny aspect of it.
I mean, it is a purchaseable item on the UOStore thus, I need to imagine, created to help increase the Revenues for Ultima Online.
Unless I am missing or misunderstanding anything about it and how it, as well as Stealing from Monsters work, if what I have been told about it holds true, at least for me it is not worth the Sovereigns it costs....
Why should I spend my money on an item which, instead of "increasing" my chances at getting a special stealable item from Monster, actually would reduce it ?
It looks to me like hammering my own feet.... I spend real money to actually WORSEN my chances to get a special item as stealable from Monsters ?
Makes no sense to me....
As I said, I am not after the Smuggler's Lanterns or Toolboxes, but, rather, after the Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.
Unless I am failing to understand something, it looks to me that spending my money on a purchase for the Smuggler's Edge, not only would do me no better good in getting these items I am after, but could possibly even reduce my chances at getting them as compared to only using the Stealing skill...
So, thanks for your offer but, unless a clarification will come from a Developer about how the Smuggler's Edge works as well as how Stealing from Monsters work, at this one time I think I will pass on the idea of purchasing a Smuggler's Edge and use my money elsewhere....
At 15% chance it takes 6,7 tries to get an item, with stealing timer at 10s it takes 67 seconds if you can stand next the the monster you are trying to steal from.
At 5% chance it takes 20 tries to get an item, if swinging at max speed you do 20 tries in 25 seconds if hitting all the time.
67/25 is 2,68 so the edge is 2,7 times better then using stealing skill.
This is just an example since I dont think you will be able to hit every time nor will you be able with your template to stand next to the monster doing nothing but trying to steal every 10s.
Just realised after double checking the numbers that the fame bonus is counted for using stealing skill but not while using smugglers edge so the numbers for the edge is twice as good, around 5 times better than using stealing skill itself.
All numbers assuming 120 stealing and 30k fame monsters
Also, are we talking about "REAL" skill points or also modified from +skill items would still be good to increase the difficulty to become unhidden ?
The reason for that, is that I am trying to figure out how to build such a Template, where to put real skill points and where +skill jewellery, and how high Ninjitsu I should get...
Thanks !