New or Future Patch Question to Devs

Mordred

This is the 3rd Patch after the Idoc topic was mentioned on the M&G and no news yet?
@Mesanna , @Bleak, @Kyronix , most players already suggested, make everything poof when house drop or make it go into a acc moving crate. Anything is bettet than the current idoc stage with all this crews doing 20+ shards, taking everything 24/7. So please let us know when we will be able to see the ideas.

Pawain

Both of your fixes are not acceptable to the majority of players.

We like IDOCS!!  We do not like vacuum cleaners.

Tim

Pawain said:

Both of your fixes are not acceptable to the majority of players.

We like IDOCS!!  We do not like vacuum cleaners.

You're wrong I speak for the majority of players. And we say do away with them.

Sounds silly doesn't it. Unless you can come up with some proof you speak for yourself and maybe some of your friends no one else.

For the record my vote is with Mordred.

Larisa

I like...or use to like...IDOC's too.....I suggest instead of having everything drop....have things like resources and normal everyday stuff drop and anything flagged as rare, unique or special in some way....vet rewards/rares, things like that...instead drop a ticket...just like a blank piece of paper that you drop into a box and get something....I know most people just go with x number of characters with x amount of packies and just start grabbing but maybe if there is some way to make EVERY container too heavy to put into a packie....or make them 125 items no matter what so they CAN'T be put into a packie...have all the rare/unique highly sought after items drop as a ticket that can be turned in somewhere so that noone knows what they are getting it's just random. I"m just throwing ideas out...used to love IDOC'ing....sorta...sad to see houses fall but fun like Christmas to see what you can get and save. 

I would hate to see everything poof

Pawain

I was under the impression that players were mad at scripters. 

So instead of fixing the gargoyle that has 5 packies, we should end that part of UO history.

If you do not like how IDOCs drop items on the ground then dont do that content.

I dont like the vacuum cleaners.  I have seen him in action.  All the chests gone in 5 seconds.

So, are we against scripting or are we against IDOCS dropping stuff on the ground?

Those are two different topics.   I am against scripting and for IDOCs dropping stuff on the ground.

Mordred

@Pawain fixing scripting in this game?? that ship sail long time ago. people are scripting everyday on PVP, scripting for walls, scripting for auto chug, scripting for everything, and scripting to search idocs, script to watch idocs, loot idocs, you cant fix that anymore. THAT is a FACT. so yes, you only have 2 choices here in this matter, either you quit doing idocs or you join them too and start doing the same thing, and they have all the time to do 20+ shards, every day, 24/7.
so yes, the common sense solution here, Make everything poof, as soon as house collapse, everything is deleted, no more loot, more more packies, no more scripting, that is the easiest solution for the Devs and wont require that much coding. Now if they really want to add some time, than make everything go into a account moving crate and when and IF the owner ever come back, he will have to pay an extra Fee to retrieve all his contents.

And before the angry MOB say anything that this will benefit this and that person, this will not benefit ANYONE at all, because there is nothing else to be looted, no more gold to be made on Idocs and the scripting on Idocs will be gone and than maybe we can start to address the pvp scripting

Sliss

Tim said:

Pawain said:

Both of your fixes are not acceptable to the majority of players.

We like IDOCS!!  We do not like vacuum cleaners.

You're wrong I speak for the majority of players. And we say do away with them.

Sounds silly doesn't it. Unless you can come up with some proof you speak for yourself and maybe some of your friends no one else.

For the record my vote is with Mordred.

My vote is with Pawain. I think removing a system enjoyed by many players just because some abuse it is ridiculous. Either fix it, or leave it alone if you are unable to.

Sliss

Mordred said:

@ Pawain fixing scripting in this game?? that ship sail long time ago. people are scripting everyday on PVP, scripting for walls, scripting for auto chug, scripting for everything, and scripting to search idocs, script to watch idocs, loot idocs, you cant fix that anymore. THAT is a FACT. so yes, you only have 2 choices here in this matter, either you quit doing idocs or you join them too and start doing the same thing, and they have all the time to do 20+ shards, every day, 24/7.
so yes, the common sense solution here, Make everything poof, as soon as house collapse, everything is deleted, no more loot, more more packies, no more scripting, that is the easiest solution for the Devs and wont require that much coding.

So... if scripting is in PvP and IDOCs, and your favorite solution for the IDOC scripting is "make everything poof", are you saying they should "make PvP go poof" too? I'd happily vote for that.

ActionElly

My vote would be for all the items to go into the moving crate and then transferred to a community auction safe near Brit Commons or added to vendors that would show up on the vendor search menu as an auction.

The safe would allow players to look at the items and click on it to enter a bid or if using the vendor search, another tab could be created idoc bidding or auction and bids placed that way.

--Although I would let crafting resources go "poof"

Starting bids could be the same for everything with a certain amount of increments allowed.

After a certain amount of time with no other bids, the gold should then come out of the winners bank account automatically (no fake bids) and possibly do bid checks as in "you lack the amount of funds for that bid"

Then allow the player to remove the item from the safe, mailbox or bank, or get a teleport map to the vendors to get the item.

If an item doesn't get bid on either let it roll over again or delete it

Everyone would then have a fair chance at getting something while also preserving history.

Mordred

The ones that insist in keep the things the way it is are probably the ones doing as well, they cant fix the scripting, that is a fact and you telling us to just keep as it is now , it is worst than scripting . Like many others suggested on both forums, just delete all or make go into a crate.

TimSt

How about make scripting easier so every one can write a script to vacuum? Right now there are script commands to target nearest object and drop object in hand in container. I have not found a command to put targeted object into hand.

Cookie

I'm anti {No Risk/Effort+High Reward} philosophies.

Sliss

Mordred said:

The ones that insist in keep the things the way it is are probably the ones doing as well, they cant fix the scripting, that is a fact and you telling us to just keep as it is now , it is worst than scripting . Like many others suggested on both forums, just delete all or make go into a crate.

For the record, I don't do IDOCs. I maybe have been to 5 -10 in all the years. 
I'd support putting the stuff in the crate. I am very against deleting it altogether. Why? There are some significant positives to keeping IDOCs with some superficial negatives. Here's the breakdown for keeping IDOCs as I see it:
Pros:

• Keeps a portion of player population engaged. For some players, that's all they do. You stop IDOCs, you can kiss those accounts good bye. UO is not in a position to squander paying customers.
• Helps lower the prices by introducing more stuff into circulation. Everybody whines about inflation and high prices. Removing IDOCs will take this in the wrong direction.

Cons:

• Some people unfairly profit from IDOCs through use of scripts. Personally it's not that big of a con to me. They are not taking stuff out of my pocket or that of any other active player. As long as some or all of it ends up on vendors, it's of benefit to game's economy.
• Scripters may discourage law abiding players from participating in IDOCs. This is important. However, removing IDOCs altogether is akin to beheading as a cure to a headache.
• Scripters clearly feed some peoples spite and envy as evidenced by this thread. Not a real con to me.

All in all, the Pros fro keeping the IDOCs outweigh the Cons to me.

ActionElly

Also, those people using scripts are more than likely selling the items on their websites to be sold for real money. they have to compete for the best scripts. So it's give and take, they keep all their accounts since it's profitable for them to do so. Hopefully someone at broadsword is getting some of that money as a trade-off.

if it wasn't for the scripters we would have lost so much history over the years, because regular players don't have the time and energy that it takes to keep up with them. This is why you see so many posts about the times; I really don't think it's all because of spite, envy or greed.

This is why my vote is for it to go to a moving crate and then moved to a place where everyone can bid on it. No more hunting them down 24/7, and waiting for 15 hours only to get a few items.

Pros:

Huge gold sink

History preserved

Auctions are very engaging to MMO communities

Another playstyle that many people enjoy

Cons:

Those with deep pockets will get the best stuff, something like IF you've won X amount of items within a consecutive time frame, then they shouldn't be able to bid again for a period of time.

Scripts would probably be created for bidding, but delays and timers could offset this.

Those making the most profit will be angry and vocal at losing IDOC's so the moderators will have to get their lock fingers ready

Note: I don't consider losing IDOC scripting accounts as a con, these items should be in the hands of people that love UO for the game and not the profit.

Garth_Grey

Tie the ingame store to IDOC items, make all of the items go into the Store at hugely discounted prices. For that matter, add a 2nd tab IDOC Outlet Store.

LilyGrace

Mordred said:

The ones that insist in keep the things the way it is are probably the ones doing as well, they cant fix the scripting, that is a fact and you telling us to just keep as it is now , it is worst than scripting . Like many others suggested on both forums, just delete all or make go into a crate.

Your blanket statements are entirely unfounded and untrue. You don't speak for the majority. And voicing that you don't want to see IDOCs go away or that you don't want the contents of a house go poof when it drops doesn't mean you're likely a cheater. 

I don't do many IDOC's but I've for sure, over the years, had some fun at them and have made some good finds. I don't want to see them go away. I don't want to see the contents go poof or be locked away in a crate, away from other players. And to infer that I'm likely a cheater for saying so is bunk.

I have to assume getting rid of scripters at IDOCs isn't easy or even possible or it would have been done by now. What I do think would help, and as others have expressed, is if there were no indication on the house sign that a house is in decay. Perhaps another type of warning, that their house is in decay, could be sent to the owner's account. Maybe an email could be generated. Or maybe a system message warning could show up when the player logs in.

I should think not having the stages of house decay show up on the sign would keep scripters from being able to ready themselves. If a house falls and no one finds the fallen contents the items will go poof in their own time. If a player randomly comes across the items on the ground, bully for them!  

Mordred

@LilyGrace that idea will only favorite the scriptersb100%, they current have rails script that scan house signs, all it takes is change couple lines on the script and instead of search for house sign, u change to scan for loot, chests or grubbers. It is a 2 min change and they can run 24/7 with no competition at all, that is the worst idea.
Make everything going into a acc owner moving crate would the best one. Or since you said that fixing scripts will never happen, than make available for everyone, make a NPC give all the location and time for idocs on a global scale and let everyone go...

LilyGrace

@Mordred ;
Now you’ve gone from saying the house and contents should just evaporate to saying a Town Cryer should let the world know a house is falling. That’s a little confusing.  

I wonder why you even care? 

If you want everything to go poof then it doesn’t sound like you’re someone who goes to IDOC’s to begin with. So why not just ignore these events entirely? Pretend they don’t exist and go in your merry way. 

Seems to me if IDOCs are announced shardwide you might end up going, not get a prize, and be all upset all over again. So don’t go to them. 

I just go if I happen to hear of one or if I wander by one. If I pick something up, I pick something up. If I don’t, I don’t. 

Would I like to see scripters thwarted? Sure! But I’m not looking to make sure no one can salvage anything from a fallen house in order to make that happen. 

I don’t pretend to know if scripters can make changes to their coding and easily find all the loot on the ground if a house sign doesn’t indicate the stages of decay. I’m not so sure you know either. 

Mordred

Ok @LilyGrace, i will just follow your advice and I will adapt my gameplay just like the others and i will as well bring 15-30 packies, since this is ok with you and with all others, may as well join them and do the same thing. So this is pretty much where we stand , according to you, just quit doing or stfu and do the same as the others, very good idea.

TimSt

@Mordred, Yep level the playing field. Make it easier for everyone to vacuum up items at an IDOC. The current scripters would get less and everyone else has a better chance of getting items.  A win-win.

LilyGrace

I didn't say any of what you're assigning to me here Mordred. And none of what you're saying was my given advice. I didn't say I was okay with fleets of packhorses. I didn't suggest you should start bringing them too. I didn't tell you, you should stfu. I'm not at all saying, If you can't beat'em, join'em.

But I noticed you didn't answer my question. I think it was a valid one. If you'd just as soon see IDOC go away completely, with items from fallen houses just disappearing, then what difference does it really make to you what goes on at an IDOC? 

I know a lot of players who don't cheat at IDOC's and they still enjoy going to them. And they still snag some prizes now and again. Would we rather scripters didn't scoop up the lion's share? Yes. But completely doing away with IDOC's in order to spite the scripters isn't of interest to a lot of players.

My question still stands. If you're so upset by it all then why trouble yourself with it? What real difference is it making in how you enjoy your gameplay? If I don't hear about an IDOC in chat or stumble upon one in my travels, I don't give IDOC's any thought myself. I probably miss 90% of them. Why would I want to plague myself with thoughts of what might be going on at an IDOC house that I'm not at and know nothing of? 

The only advice I guess I sort of offered, but in the form of a question, was, if you're so upset by IDOC's why worry about them at all?

Tim

I say do away with them because 

• They penalize a player who for what ever reason let their subscription laps (medical or financial as examples)
• One more reason for a returning player not to come back (if he can have the stuff in his bank box back why not the stuff in his house)
• Doesn't really fit the story of the game. A secure castle suddenly vanishes and everything just drops to the ground????? There is an opportunity for some game play and story but this isn't it. I could see filling it with undead and letting thieves go at it but not just leaving it for scripters.
• It's a really scummy way of marking the loss of another player. He quit or god forbid died, let's loot his house.

LilyGrace

We've come a long way from having to log in and open the door of your house in order for it to refresh. If you were gone, for 10 days I think it was, without refreshing, your house dropped. We have three months now that we can go without paying before a house starts to decay. 

Three months is a pretty good stretch of time. It offers a good amount of time for friends and guildmates to get hold of someone who's not meaning to let their house fall. It's a fair amount of time for friends and mates to get hold of Mesanna to let her know someone is ill or has passed. My experience is, it's not unusual for these things to be taken care of in a caring, thoughtful and carful manner. 

I don't agree that after 20+ years of IDOC's we should do away with them because those who chose to quit might not come back again if after they stopped paying on their accounts their stuff disappeared. If they're deciding to quit they have time to think about what they'd like to put away in their bank boxes. That's pretty fair.

It doesn't even make sense from a revenue standpoint to allow for players to quit for as long as they'd like because all their items are being saved on the servers for when and if they want to come back.

I've been called a few things in my life but never scummy. lol 

edited for typo

Pawain

@LilyGrace ; just keep the guy posting, he loses credibility with each post.

If you like something he doesn't like then obviously you are a cheater.  UO has lasted so long because there are so many things to do.  I have yet to do all of the things I could do in UO.

Don't discourage or encourage removal of playstyles.  Especially if you do not want to play that part of the game.

Mariah

Name calling, of any description, is not acceptable on this forum. Please refrain from doing so

Lynk

Do it storage wars style.  Auction off the house with no preview of contents.  Highest bidder gets the plot and items.

Kirthag

/sigh/

Anything that involves an auction of any sort is a pay2win scenario and only benefits those with the gold/plat to pay.
Anything that involves moving into any store/bid system only puts the devs into the scripter spot (although them scripting is legal and part of the game, yes?), and still benefits only those with the gold/plat to pay.

Either of these two would move the scripting to other systems and features. They don't solve the core issues:

1. Illegal scripting in the game (something that might help: https://www.battleye.com/)
2. Loss of account(s) that held the house(s) (revenue stream)

I still think moving everything into Green Acres and having an "event" built around it is a more opportunistic venture and will prevent the script-kiddies & RMT-ers from scooping everything up. Yes, this would be an "instanced" pvp thing, but observable by the gods and somewhat more favorable to equal distribution (risk/reward). However, the scripters will just find other things to script to gain their gold, and players are only thinking of their personal gain and enjoyment, not how it affects the world overall. 

The only other thing in this whole debate that makes any business sense is to store the moving crate for the hopeful return of the house owner (with a paid account and some penalty or "storage" fees) - or allow third parties to somehow maintain the account without playing it, particularly in memorial instances. Although, this still doesn't solve scripting issues.

Everything else is a waste of forum space. Sorry, some good and creative ideas are mentioned in this and other IDOC threads, but only a slim few really look at the two important issues.