What is so special about the Spellweaving Summon Fiend spell ?

I decided to get the Summon Fiend Spellweaving scroll.

Wow, that is a time consuming and pain of a Quest....

Why is it SUCH a pain to get this scroll ? The spell in itself, Summon Fiend, does not look anything special at least, nothing that powerfull to justify the pain that it is to get it....

Am I missing anything ?

Is there something powerfull about this particular Spellweaving Spell that I am not aware of which justifies the obtaining of it being so times consuming and complicated ?

Comments

  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 1,262
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • FaerylFaeryl Posts: 273
    edited May 2019
    It's not really any more time consuming of a quest chain than Summon Fey, and they're pretty much the same spell. The only real difference I can think of is that Summon Fiend will lower your karma.

    Honestly, unless my character has a specific use for it in terms of RP, I just don't bother getting it.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,976
    edited May 2019
    There is a gate in Ilsh where Imps spawn and another where the Reapers spawn.  Takes a few minutes.

    Easy for something that lasts forever.
  • HermioneHermione Posts: 51
    edited May 2019
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Not sure about Siege but pixies certainly won’t attack the summoner on normal shards. You do however have to eat a royal forged pardon to do the pixie quest as there is no way to do it as a red.

    And @Faeryl there is a big difference, pixies have much higher eval and move a lot faster. 
  • Max_BlackoakMax_Blackoak Posts: 597
    Summoned pixies on Siege don't attack their red owner.

    Now if those imps would actually use their pack instinct they'd be a viable alternative for pixies...I don't think they do though...
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,309
    edited May 2019
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,309
    Pawain said:
    There is a gate in Ilsh where Imps spawn and another where the Reapers spawn.  Takes a few minutes.

    Easy for something that lasts forever.
    I would not say a few minutes....

    Only coming and going through Sanctuary some 6 times for the 3 tiered Quests takes some time and quite a risk....

    Why reapers ?

    The second tier requires a Stout Whip which is a rare and much occasional drop from Orc Captains (more time to invest, as they are quite a rare drop...).

    And the 3rd one requires killing an Arcane Demon (which only spaw in 2 locations with quite some messy and dangerous spawn around...).

    To my knowledge, Reapers are not needed to get this particular scroll.
  • ArronArron Posts: 485
    popps said:
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
    If we did not have challanges in this game it would not be as much fun to me, but I guess some people like everthing to be easy. "Give that person an Easy Button" hehe.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 1,262
    Arron said:
    popps said:
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
    If we did not have challanges in this game it would not be as much fun to me, but I guess some people like everthing to be easy. "Give that person an Easy Button" hehe.
    I knew better @Arron , I did it to myself. @popps not everything should be handed to you just for participating. It should take time to figure things out and go through a quest, that’s why it’s called a quest not a button push. If it’s too much of a pain, don’t do it, do something you enjoy doing to make the money to buy the stuff that are rewards from things that You don’t. 
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • poppspopps Posts: 3,309
    Arron said:
    popps said:
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
    If we did not have challanges in this game it would not be as much fun to me, but I guess some people like everthing to be easy. "Give that person an Easy Button" hehe.
    I am not saying that, just noting that, at least to my opinion, what comes from the usefullness of that particular spell does not look to be commensurate to what takes to obtain it...

    Just that....

    Especially, when one compares it to "other" spells, way more usefull and powerfull that do not take such an ordeal to be obtained...

    Perhaps, this particular Spellweaving spell could be made more powerfull to better reflect the difficulty and time it takes to obtain it ?

    @Kyronix , do you think it could be something to consider ?
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,309
    Arron said:
    popps said:
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
    If we did not have challanges in this game it would not be as much fun to me, but I guess some people like everthing to be easy. "Give that person an Easy Button" hehe.
    I knew better @ Arron , I did it to myself. @ popps not everything should be handed to you just for participating. It should take time to figure things out and go through a quest, that’s why it’s called a quest not a button push. If it’s too much of a pain, don’t do it, do something you enjoy doing to make the money to buy the stuff that are rewards from things that You don’t. 
    As I said, it is a Quest that can be done, it takes time, takes effort, it also has a good degree of dangers involved but that is not my point.

    My point is more in regards to the end usefullness of this particular Spellweaving when compared to what it takes to obtain it.

    And this, especially if one also considers that other spells, way more powerfull, usefull and effective in Ultima Online, do not take so much time, effort and dangerousness to be obtained...

    Perhaps, the powerfullness and usefullness of this Spellweaving spell could be "buffed" to more reflect the time and hassles that it takes to obtain it ?
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 1,262
    popps said:
    Arron said:
    popps said:
    it's the same as the spell that summons Fairies AFAIK,  just for Negative karma characters. iirc fairies summoned by a negative karma character will attack the summoner, fiends will not.  
    Yes, I am aware of how the spell works, what I was surprised to realize, is the little benefit one gets from the using of the spell when comparing it to the amount of gameplay (time) needed to get the scroll....

    What I am trying to say, is that much more powerfull spells require much less work and time to get....

    I mean, Sanctuary cannot be recalled neither in nor our so, it is quite a walk BOTH in and out of it... the spawn both above and below is quite a mess....

    Furthermore, in order to get the scroll, 3 Quests need to be complete which it means, to go and come back throughout the entire Sanctuary 6 times....

    Then 50 Imps must be killed for the 1st tier, then the Stout Whip must be obtained for the second tier which is more time since it is a very occasional and rare drop... and lastly, an Arcane Demon needs to be slayed and they happen to be wandering about in 2 locations BOTH with quite a spawn around....

    So, my point is, that it obviously can be done BUT, it is VERY time consuming and quite a complex and dangerous endeavour.... and to get what ability ?

    That of summoning low damaging summons....

    This is, what I am much surprised of, the "Reward", so to speak, looks to me way not commensurated to the "Risk" involved to get the scroll and this, especially when comparing it to other spells, much more powerfull but easier to be obtained....
    If we did not have challanges in this game it would not be as much fun to me, but I guess some people like everthing to be easy. "Give that person an Easy Button" hehe.
    I knew better @ Arron , I did it to myself. @ popps not everything should be handed to you just for participating. It should take time to figure things out and go through a quest, that’s why it’s called a quest not a button push. If it’s too much of a pain, don’t do it, do something you enjoy doing to make the money to buy the stuff that are rewards from things that You don’t. 
    As I said, it is a Quest that can be done, it takes time, takes effort, it also has a good degree of dangers involved but that is not my point.

    My point is more in regards to the end usefullness of this particular Spellweaving when compared to what it takes to obtain it.

    And this, especially if one also considers that other spells, way more powerfull, usefull and effective in Ultima Online, do not take so much time, effort and dangerousness to be obtained...

    Perhaps, the powerfullness and usefullness of this Spellweaving spell could be "buffed" to more reflect the time and hassles that it takes to obtain it ?
    I disagree it is not really that difficult to do and the time to do it is time spent playing a game that I truly love to play so no complaints there either. 
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    There are lots of articles and research out there on how difficult a game should be to be fun,
    spoiler: it's supposed to be difficult.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,976
    edited May 2019
    popps said:
    Pawain said:
    There is a gate in Ilsh where Imps spawn and another where the Reapers spawn.  Takes a few minutes.

    Easy for something that lasts forever.
    I would not say a few minutes....

    Only coming and going through Sanctuary some 6 times for the 3 tiered Quests takes some time and quite a risk....

    Why reapers ?

    The second tier requires a Stout Whip which is a rare and much occasional drop from Orc Captains (more time to invest, as they are quite a rare drop...).

    And the 3rd one requires killing an Arcane Demon (which only spaw in 2 locations with quite some messy and dangerous spawn around...).

    To my knowledge, Reapers are not needed to get this particular scroll.

    Ok you can do both in an hour. Why do one and not the other? 

    Why are you walking thru Sanctuary?  Spending more than 30 seconds in there is death for a hapless soul. I guide players thru this and the Spellweaving quest. I can help a NOOB run thru and kill 50 rats with 50 skill on their toon. I played a lot in Sanctuary when ML came out. You can learn many survival skills there.

    You were recently talking about yeast.  Why didn't you butcher all the orcs then? You would have had whips.

    Sometimes it is good to learn how to play at the places the developers send you. Then you can tackle the harder stuff.
    Mervyn said:
    There are lots of articles and research out there on how difficult a game should be to be fun,
    spoiler: it's supposed to be difficult.

    :)
  • MelchiahMelchiah Posts: 42
    And for two further pennies - compared to the rest of the SW scrolls, aren’t Summon Fey and Summon Fiend at least guaranteed drops? Try hunting for a specific SW scroll without buying it from another player and see how long it takes you...
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 935
    Melchiah said:
    Try hunting for a specific SW scroll without buying it from another player and see how long it takes you...
    I've got 2 spare books that's close to year 3 trying to fill. Granted I'm not grinding to finish fast but still.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 942
    edited September 16
    Just a note you have to do the quest to do this spell.  I recently bought a book with 16 spells thinking I would be able to do the spell.  It really irritated me that when I tried to cast it that I was not allowed to cast it.  Especially when I paid a premium for the book.  So grudgingly I did the quest. 

    Thanks to the “underground route into the sanctuary” wiki my mage had no problems getting in and out.  Also, already having had a stout whip he didn’t know what to do with in his backpack for the last two years he only had to make two round trips to the sanctuary.  Think the quest only took an hour or two. Helps to have fire elemental and demon slayer spellbooks. Getting to the Exodus dungeon probably took the most effort.  Overall I thought the effort required to do the quest was not excessive.  My mage had no problems with it 

    Agree with others the spell is not that great and doubt that I will ever use it.  But being overly compulsive about some things, like seeing that my Spellbook is now complete.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 524
    the pack instinct it what made summon fiend worth it, at least when paired with 1 or 2 fire steeds.

    but I'm pretty sure fire steeds had one of their pack bonuses removed when the pet revamp came out.. so it's not useful to have both now.  and of course a 5/5 slot pet with enemy of one is more powerful across the board anyway.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • The point is to get a completely full spellweaving spellbook ...

    yes, you can buy the spell off of someone who's completed the quest but you can't use it unless you've completed it yourself.

    Why troll the forums with random, needless questions about aspects of the game that have been around for years? Do the quest, get the spell. Use the spell or not (I have never used summon fiend ... but my spellweaving spellbook is full and I could use it if I so desired or needed.) Don't want to do the quest, don't do it and live with a spellweaving spellbook that only has 15 spells.

    Or get a group of people together to run the quest at the same time to make things faster.

    Or don't.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 174
    The point is to get a completely full spellweaving spellbook ...

    yes, you can buy the spell off of someone who's completed the quest but you can't use it unless you've completed it yourself.

    Why troll the forums with random, needless questions about aspects of the game that have been around for years? Do the quest, get the spell. Use the spell or not (I have never used summon fiend ... but my spellweaving spellbook is full and I could use it if I so desired or needed.) Don't want to do the quest, don't do it and live with a spellweaving spellbook that only has 15 spells.

    Or get a group of people together to run the quest at the same time to make things faster.

    Or don't.

    Well said. 


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