Please make IDOCs go away for good

TimSt

Maximus_Neximus said:

TimSt said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

TimSt said:

I wonder if there is a way to disable all scripting in the area for a minute after a house falls. It would mean client changes.   That would put an end to the scripting issue.

From a programming point of view, that's not possible.

It should be possible considering they were able to re-enable the crafting actions like make-last. They could add an if statement like "if (time < g_timeHouseFell + g_idocTimeLimit) { return; } to each of the scriptable actions.

I don’t see how that would stop a 3rd party script though. I’m fairly new to programming and have only worked with java (and a tiny bit of swift) so far. So maybe I’m missing something. 

The 3rd party script has to call functions provided by the client to get the client to do things like pick up an object.  Think of it this way: your java program calls functions provided by the Android framework. Your program is the 3rd party script and the Android framework would be the UO client.

Don't fret. I have 35 years programming experience and I still miss things.

Something I've learned from my experiences is: coding to handle failure is just as important as coding for success.

MissE

Just don't advertise something is going IDOC.  The house owner should get an email, the house should turn idoc with NO notification on the sign and then it should just drop. If your lucky enough to be around when it does you score.  If not tough luck.  Pretty simple solution. 

Ivenor

MissE said:

Just don't advertise something is going IDOC.  The house owner should get an email, the house should turn idoc with NO notification on the sign and then it should just drop. If your lucky enough to be around when it does you score.  If not tough luck.  Pretty simple solution. 

Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all!

Kirthag

MissE said:

Just don't advertise something is going IDOC.  The house owner should get an email, the house should turn idoc with NO notification on the sign and then it should just drop. If your lucky enough to be around when it does you score.  If not tough luck.  Pretty simple solution. 

For as many houses ad tons of personalized artifacts I've lost over the years - I like this.
The only people that should matter that a house is falling is the owner. Maybe guild people, but are there really guild houses anymore?

Bilbo

Someone posted about just storing the contents of the account until the account owner returns.  IMHO I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea.  I wounder how many people that lost everything decided not to come back because they didn't want to start over.  By doing this you would have something to start over with.  Sadly this wasn't done from the beginning but it is never to late to do the right thing.

AnglesWings

Bilbo said:

Someone posted about just storing the contents of the account until the account owner returns.  IMHO I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea.  I wounder how many people that lost everything decided not to come back because they didn't want to start over.  By doing this you would have something to start over with.  Sadly this wasn't done from the beginning but it is never to late to do the right thing.

How many people would you this "feature" in a Bad way?   Free storage!!
load the house, close the account, after 90 days, everything would go to a free storage!

Bilbo

AnglesWings said:

Bilbo said:

Someone posted about just storing the contents of the account until the account owner returns.  IMHO I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea.  I wounder how many people that lost everything decided not to come back because they didn't want to start over.  By doing this you would have something to start over with.  Sadly this wasn't done from the beginning but it is never to late to do the right thing.

How many people would you this "feature" in a Bad way?   Free storage!!
load the house, close the account, after 90 days, everything would go to a free storage!

And in order to get it back they would have to re-sub the account and I would block this type of account from EJ.  So if you tried to make an old account EJ and could not then you would know which accounts had, I will call it other storage on that account.  As far as the free storage we are talking the cloud not some hard drive at UO.  It is not really free because it would only apply to paid accounts in good standings and it would cost a 1 month sub just to look at what is there.  UO already stores your char (125 items + what your wear, I think it is 13 max + 125 items Beatle) 263 items and your bank box 175 items X 7 Chars is app 3066 items + 7500 for a %60 castle that's 10,566 and with current storage that really is chump change.

Now lets say you re-sub with all those items and you can not place a castle to unload everything, well I guess you need to open more housing accounts to hold it all because it needs to be along the line of a char xfer with 5 packies you have X amount of time to unload them before it goes poof, same with the extra storage, lets say 7 days before it goes poof.

AnglesWings

Just like I mentioned before! the 2 best idea to stop this madness would be:

1) Remove the House Status of the House sign, this would stop 90% of the scripters, is there a way around? sure, they would have to change their script to random path find the game 24/7 looking for Grubbers. This would be fair to all the players, you log one day and your neighbor house is gone, a castle or a luna and no one is there!!


2) This is also a Fair idea, make all the houses fall at the server up, no way anyone can set their scripts that fast. The server is UP and the contents are on the floor already, they would have to choose where to go (priorities) because all the shards goes down at 6am (respecting each shard time zone). so this would give us choices on where to do Idocs!.  you would have a whole bunch idocs at 6am (ET)  , few more at 8am (et) , few more at Jap shards at 6pm (ET) and than European shards at 12am (ET). 
with the idea of all IDOCS collapse at server up, would give us the choice on which one to attend, less people trying to place houses, because we will have lot of different options and best of all, no more 5,10,15 BS,  Houses will be gone at 6am and we can actually plan our days and not worry on have to come back 10 or 15 HOURS later.

Ivenor

AnglesWings said:

Just like I mentioned before! the 2 best idea to stop this madness would be:

1) Remove the House Status of the House sign, this would stop 90% of the scripters, is there a way around? sure, they would have to change their script to random path find the game 24/7 looking for Grubbers. This would be fair to all the players, you log one day and your neighbor house is gone, a castle or a luna and no one is there!!


2) This is also a Fair idea, make all the houses fall at the server up, no way anyone can set their scripts that fast. The server is UP and the contents are on the floor already, they would have to choose where to go (priorities) because all the shards goes down at 6am (respecting each shard time zone). so this would give us choices on where to do Idocs!.  you would have a whole bunch idocs at 6am (ET)  , few more at 8am (et) , few more at Jap shards at 6pm (ET) and than European shards at 12am (ET). 
with the idea of all IDOCS collapse at server up, would give us the choice on which one to attend, less people trying to place houses, because we will have lot of different options and best of all, no more 5,10,15 BS,  Houses will be gone at 6am and we can actually plan our days and not worry on have to come back 10 or 15 HOURS later.

Both solutions are totally fine by me.

Bilbo

AnglesWings said:

make all the houses fall at the server up, no way anyone can set their scripts that fast. The server is UP and the contents are on the floor already, they would have to choose where to go (priorities) because all the shards goes down at 6am (respecting each shard time zone). so this would give us choices on where to do Idocs!.  you would have a whole bunch idocs at 6am (ET)  , few more at 8am (et) , few more at Jap shards at 6pm (ET) and than European shards at 12am (ET). 
with the idea of all IDOCS collapse at server up, would give us the choice on which one to attend, less people trying to place houses, because we will have lot of different options and best of all, no more 5,10,15 BS,  Houses will be gone at 6am and we can actually plan our days and not worry on have to come back 10 or 15 HOURS later.

They use scripts to log on and they are already there with beetles because they already knew where to go and their scripts are already running 1 sec after log on.  X amount of accounts log on/dismount pre-friended beetles and master account loads all beetles open gate everybody says all follow me and they walk through gate.  This sucks but sadly this is what UO has become and if there is a hint of which house is going to fall then this will happen or they log on with spy cams on the most desirable places and all show up in less than 1 min to same location.

IMHO the only way to solve current IDOCs is to do away with them.  They either go poof and all is lost or they are stored awaiting the accounts return.

Lady_Storm

IDOC's ideas I have read here have big gaping holes in them..   blocking packies?? Oh where do I begin on this one.  That's the first one that hit me. Ok you get them to block all pack animal for say 3 18s size in a square area.. sounds reasonable to most who are set to do a fall but what about the home owners around in that no pack animal zone? I do hope you and the dev see the mounting trouble with this. I sure do.
Ok lets not quibble on this issue  a real change is needed to stop the major macro'ers who rip off all others at these falls.  The stripping is so vast and we all know they are making a killing in the gold department selling the ill gotten gains. Then selling the gold and plat they get to players or the gold seller's sites. The high end goods are also being sold on these sites for RL $
This must end.  
My Idea is:
   There is an easer resolve and it might take a good chunk of gold off the game... sell the whole plot/house, lock, stock, and junk.. But you don't get to keep the house it will decay (read forward).

Here is how it could go:  At the end of the 90 days of grace which we get now an additional time will be added where the house will go "Pending" **  giving roughly 5 days for the owner claim.*    
(there will be no house sign announcement of its status but a city message stone similar to the TC1 Stone with listing of houses gone past the Pending to the Stone stage and their location for you to find)
A Bidding Stone will then be placed House contents will go in the moving crate. So no peeking!
All bids of gold or plat will then be non refundable so bid wisely,  At the end of the stones timer the winner will have access to the house and its contents for 24*** hours if not empty by then the whole thing will drop to the ground and open the space to all for placement any junk will be up for grabs … or decay.  
The winner can at any time of the 24*** hours after excepting the win can select the drop option on the house stone and place his or her own in its place.  
This is the only bright spot to the spending the gold I can see happening. Other then the decay bit as stated above.
Many of you must be by now decrying the loss of the plot to the gold hogs of the game, but to be honest all contents are a pig in a poke...  As for placing the winning account is the only one allowed to place... if you understand they must bid and pay with the account that paid the stone.
You might find some houses not bid on 

*  As with most of us our CC's and EA billing has a way of messing up, so this time after the 90 days is the last saving grace the Dev give us now as all know the owner can claim the house up to 2 hours before it go's poof. So no change. 

**There will be no shown timer on this "Pending" stage for public to count on. The 5 days is a suggestion only.

*** this is up to the Dev for the exact time to give mind you... 

I wish @Mesanna ; @Misk ; @Kyronix @Bleak ; please GODS of UO read and consider this option.

Bilbo

So in your version @Lady_Storm the rich get the contents and the house plot, what a way to support the RMT sites, nice.  

dvvid

Since returning to uo, I have been to one medium sized idoc. I waited around for hours as usual. When the house fell almost everything was picked up right away. I was blown away by that. Only grabbed 2 containers and it was basically junk. 

Would be cool if it was not advertised at all, the contents dropped, and stayed on the ground until maintenance or until it’s all been found and taken. That would definitely even out the playing field I think. 

KHAN

Bilbo said:

Someone posted about just storing the contents of the account until the account owner returns.  IMHO I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea.  I wounder how many people that lost everything decided not to come back because they didn't want to start over.  By doing this you would have something to start over with.  Sadly this wasn't done from the beginning but it is never to late to do the right thing.

In my opinion it's a HORRIBLE idea. Considering how many people take advantage of/abuse the "90 day game" (I don't, my accounts are paid for 12 months of every year) how many people do you think would just quit paying whenever they didn't feel like playing, knowing that all of their items would still be there for them if/when they decided to start paying again. I can tell you, personally, if this where the case, given the current state of the game, with the Developers UNWILLINGNESS to deal with scripters/RMT people, if I could quit paying, and know my "stuff" would be waiting for me, I could/would drop at least 5 accounts IN A HEARTBEAT!

I enjoyed IDOCS, and actually opened several additional accounts in order to "work them better". I did a lot of them. BUT, I used no scripts, and physically ran around checking with 1 character. When the house fell, I would load 1 character and his packies, then move to the next one. Rinse and repeat. All "legal". I have no problem with 20-50 people at an IDOC, AS LONG AS THEY WERE ALL LOOTING "LEGALLY". Now we nothing but scripters at IDOCs. I am at the point that I almost don't need several of those accounts, and am trying to figure out how to shut them down.

The bottom line is: IDOC's are fun, as long as everyone has the same chance to loot. What has killed that fun, are the scripters. Please don't tell me that @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak can't spot them. HECK, if they can't, them something is very wrong, because even I can spot them, and I am a computer idiot. 

There are ZERO VALID REASONS for the developers NOT to enforce the ToS, and ban the scripters/cheaters/RMT, and MANY reasons to do so. 

How many people have gotten tired of the rampant cheating and RMT's, and have said to heck with it, and just quit the game? I know of at least 100 accounts gone, and I am only 1 person.

@Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix Please DO YOUR JOB and deal with these people. There is no VALID reason not to do so. To continue to allow/turn a blind eye to them is spitting in the face of the honest players.

I would love to hear the REAL reason why they can't/don't/won't enforce their own rules! 

Bilbo

MONEY MONEY MONEY  BS/DAoC/UO enforce EAs rules and EA is and has always been about the GREEN.  Hell yes they all know what you are/are not running just by looking at the data stream.

Bilbo

KHAN said:

Bilbo said:

Someone posted about just storing the contents of the account until the account owner returns.  IMHO I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea.  I wounder how many people that lost everything decided not to come back because they didn't want to start over.  By doing this you would have something to start over with.  Sadly this wasn't done from the beginning but it is never to late to do the right thing.

In my opinion it's a HORRIBLE idea. Considering how many people take advantage of/abuse the "90 day game" (I don't, my accounts are paid for 12 months of every year) how many people do you think would just quit paying whenever they didn't feel like playing, knowing that all of their items would still be there for them if/when they decided to start paying again. I can tell you, personally, if this where the case, given the current state of the game, with the Developers UNWILLINGNESS to deal with scripters/RMT people, if I could quit paying, and know my "stuff" would be waiting for me, I could/would drop at least 5 accounts IN A HEARTBEAT!

I enjoyed IDOCS, and actually opened several additional accounts in order to "work them better". I did a lot of them. BUT, I used no scripts, and physically ran around checking with 1 character. When the house fell, I would load 1 character and his packies, then move to the next one. Rinse and repeat. All "legal". I have no problem with 20-50 people at an IDOC, AS LONG AS THEY WERE ALL LOOTING "LEGALLY". Now we nothing but scripters at IDOCs. I am at the point that I almost don't need several of those accounts, and am trying to figure out how to shut them down.

The bottom line is: IDOC's are fun, as long as everyone has the same chance to loot. What has killed that fun, are the scripters. Please don't tell me that @ Mesanna @ Kyronix @ Bleak can't spot them. HECK, if they can't, them something is very wrong, because even I can spot them, and I am a computer idiot. 

There are ZERO VALID REASONS for the developers NOT to enforce the ToS, and ban the scripters/cheaters/RMT, and MANY reasons to do so. 

How many people have gotten tired of the rampant cheating and RMT's, and have said to heck with it, and just quit the game? I know of at least 100 accounts gone, and I am only 1 person.

@ Mesanna @ Bleak @ Kyronix Please DO YOUR JOB and deal with these people. There is no VALID reason not to do so. To continue to allow/turn a blind eye to them is spitting in the face of the honest players.

I would love to hear the REAL reason why they can't/don't/won't enforce their own rules! 

You will pay your accounts no matter what, you don't even use the 90 day scam so please do not try to make me believe that you will close down 5 of your accounts or you would have already done it.
The 90 day people will still use the 90 day pay .
The people that play awhile will still play a while and quit no matter what and save app 400 items per char.
IDOCs are not fun and the cheaters have been here from the day they mistakenly published the code for the client on a disk.  So IDOCs have been cheated/scripted for a very long time and here you are still paying/playing, the only difference is they are getting more bolder about the way they do things.

We all play UO with the knowledge that there are costs to our addiction.
EA is money hungry
EA will not or can not afford to ban all those RMT or Cheating accounts because there is not enough of us left paying to support the game.
Without a way to get people back your way will kill UO so which of our solution is better for the game.  How many people would have returned knowing that they did not lose everything due to real life situations.  I know active duty personal that while deployed lost accounts and EA did nothing to help so they quit all together and no EA is not just a phone call away no matter what you think.

Mariah

Please keep posts respectful. Attacks on other posters or Broadsword staff are not acceptable.

Bilbo

  

TimSt

Add another stage of demolition that blocks packies and EJ from entering the footprint of the house after it falls.  You can grab what you can carry. After a minute the ban on packies and EJ ends.  That should reduce the amount of stuff the scriptors can grab on initial house fall.  If they want to grab more then they have to pony up with more paid subscriptions.

MissE

It is just so simple, stop the sign advertising the house condition as I said above.  If ya don't know it is idoc you can't script it, can't camp it, cant get organized with a hundred packies.

No need for all the above complicated solutions.  No packy banning, or time changes or storing stuff, or stopping them completely. 

The WHOLE problem will instantly STOP if people don't know a joint is in idoc state. 

Send the owner an email, kick the co-owners/friends etc off as currently happens so that IF that person has any friends/guildies that bother to go to their house they won't be able to get in so will get a heads up on it and can contact the owner if needed and/or organize with those friended to the house or guildmates to check their FRIENDS property for when it drops and gather as much as possible, as it should be, friends first.  

Let it drop anytime within 10 hrs of it going idoc.

People who are out actually PLAYING the game and getting around the facets will be the lucky ones to stumble across goods on the ground rather than the scripted bots do the idoc checking. 

It is the simplest solution out. No idea why there needs to be a heap of discussion over something so easily fixed. @Kyronix

Bilbo

Everybody that was friended to that house will already know what day it will fall so from server up till 10 hrs later the house will drop and people already have cams at spawns do you really think they can't place one there with a script running to alert them and watch all the scripter show at once.  I love the idea but I live in the real world and the word will get out that a house at this spot just went into the IDOCs stage and people already know how long that lasts so they will already know the date it will drop and they are already camping/spying all the current IDOCs so what will stop them from camping/spying these new IDOCs.

Lady_Storm

Bilbo please read my post again...   you will find it doesn't favor them,  in fact if it was done as I put it, no house sign to tell if a house is going to go till a stone shows up. No way to trace it  unless the fall is given by a EA leak or a BS leak.   Because all billing info is private.   

Yes falls have over the years been fun but these days with all the advanced macroing the bad elements have at their finger tips is amazing and disheartening. There is no way the average player can beat a macro from sweeping the area and filling every packie at their disposal.. and when you have 2 or 3 of these showing up and sitting close to the area size the macro can pull your not gunna get squat for all that time.  That s not fair to any of us.  But you are thinking the Dev will do this  when I know very well they will sit on their hands and think it will stop on its own or give a speech in the newsletter to handle it.  A handful of GMs only go so far... and many of these falls are way after hours when the office is closed.  

Bilbo

@Lady_Storm ;  I have been reading this and the thread on  stratics and some one just posted this question.

When a house reaches the IDOC stage house will become set to ‘private’ and all access will be removed. Provided it has no rental vendors, it will drop after 5, 10 or 15 hours, the house and all add ons will disappear

How is it that all these scripters know exactly when a house enters the IDOC stage because unless they are watching that sign then there is no way they know the exact time and somehow they are always there ready at the 5,10,15 hour mark

JollyJade

KHAN said:I would love to hear the REAL reason why they can't/don't/won't enforce their own rules! 

Because it's money and pays their jobs? Simple as that..

JollyJade

Bilbo said:

MONEY MONEY MONEY  BS/DAoC/UO enforce EAs rules and EA is and has always been about the GREEN.  Hell yes they all know what you are/are not running just by looking at the data stream.

Direct link into your brain i tell ya. They can even see if youre wearing pants while talking to them.

Bilbo

JollyJade said:

Bilbo said:

MONEY MONEY MONEY  BS/DAoC/UO enforce EAs rules and EA is and has always been about the GREEN.  Hell yes they all know what you are/are not running just by looking at the data stream.

Direct link into your brain i tell ya. They can even see if youre wearing pants while talking to them.

  /

AnglesWings

Easy solution will he remove the house sign status, or like Mesanna suggested on the last M&G auction the place.

House will start staging.
House will go sl, sw, fw, gw and finally idoc, after 24 hour been idoc, house will go OSI and a auction safe goes into steps or house sign option , for bidding and just like any OSI house , would run 7 days, allowing people to bid foe the contents or entire house.
After the 7 days been OSI, if no one bid than the house just collapse the same way it is now.

AnglesWings

But the reality is, the Devs team is small, they already "planned" their year, so none od those nice idead will happen anyway, so the faster solution is remove the house sign status.

Mervyn

I have been to loads of fel idocs and gotten everything without any scripts, you just turn up on a red and spam thunderstorm. This all sounds like trammel only issues. 

I only do fel idocs for this reason and would encourage others to take a similar approach when choosing a house location.

Luc_of_Legends

Mervyn is right. OMG!  LOL!  I just agreed with Mervyn!  It must be a sign of the UO apocalypse.

Seriously, the Dev Team needs to take a stand and start laying down the Ban Hammer on the scriptards as I call them.  Also start slapping the gold sites with DMCA violations.   I can tell you for 100% certain that these scumbags do not pay for UO.   I got it straight from one of em's mouth!   He hadn't paid for UO in FIFTEEN YEARS!   He goes to that website that dumps books all over  every shard and buys game time codes for gold.   These are the same scriptards that script every idoc.   

Let's look at the nasty circle:   Scriptard scripts an idoc and lets say for giggles he get a bunch of high end EM event items.   Mr. Scriptard then hauls his cookies to Atlantic and sells items for billions and billions of gold.   Then Mr. Scriptard goes to THAT website  and buys some gametime codes for gold.  That website turns around and sells for real life money. 

The real question is why haven't the Devs shut these websites down?  Inquiring minds want to know!!!