Ninja, send help

Ok so I know a lot of skills and mechanics inside out... But I'm clueless on ninja and am working it into a funky template.

I've been looking around for actual info and numbers other that the vague description on uoguide, wiki, strati, so on.  Only actual numbers or formulas I can find are from non production shards so I have no idea if they are relevant.

Can anyone explain to me exactly how Deathstrike, ki attack, focus attack and backstab apply damage.  Numbers... Affected skills etc.  

There's not much info on them other than Deathstrike but even that has a lot of dated or conflicting info in the forum's.

Thanks
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  • ShannowShannow Posts: 35
    with gm ninjitsu and gm fencing (no tactics, no anat, 40 DI) using a dagger

    base damage ~17-21
    deathstrike = 1/2 damage then 17-21 a second or so later
    ki attack (if timed perfectly) double damage i.e. 34-42
    focus attack slightly higher than base ~ 21-25
    backstab is double
    surprise attack - base damage only - didnt see any difference.

    Most of these figures are lowered by resists of the monster,
    I believe that backstab is the only one that is not resisted.

    Bit of a pain hiding, initialising backstab, reattacking, then hiding again. But with the dagger shadow strike special move it can be done without too much hassle.

  • Shannow said:
    with gm ninjitsu and gm fencing (no tactics, no anat, 40 DI) using a dagger

    base damage ~17-21
    deathstrike = 1/2 damage then 17-21 a second or so later
    ki attack (if timed perfectly) double damage i.e. 34-42
    focus attack slightly higher than base ~ 21-25
    backstab is double
    surprise attack - base damage only - didnt see any difference.

    Most of these figures are lowered by resists of the monster,
    I believe that backstab is the only one that is not resisted.

    Bit of a pain hiding, initialising backstab, reattacking, then hiding again. But with the dagger shadow strike special move it can be done without too much hassle.

    Ok thanks,

    So that works something like...
    Ki attack - 10-100% di, depending on timing and movement?

    Focus attack - looks something like 20% di or so

    Backstab - just 100% di?  Do you know if it's just based off of ninja or do hiding stealth affect it?

    Deathstrike -   50% weapon damage then the delayed damage is direct damage isn't it?  I'm assuming that is still based off the average of ninja hiding and stealth

    Surprise as far as I read just lowers DCI or something iirc

    Look about right?
  • ShannowShannow Posts: 35
    I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think ninjitsu skill has no bearing on the amount of damage dealt. The only thing it does is improve the chance of a successful execution of the backstab etc.

    So to increase damage dealt, you need 100% damage increase on items (jewellery + weapon mainly), strength, tactics and anatomy + slayers etc.

    Stealth does not add damage. I think a certain level is required though to be able to use some moves like shadow jump, backstab, surprise attack and shadow strike (weapon special, not related to ninjitsu).

    All your damages look correct except ki-attack. I think the spread is base damage up to 2 x base damage, depending on timing.
    The best is definately backstab - 2 x base damage ignoring resists. All the others are resisted to some degree.

    So to recap, ninjitsu just helps you execute the move successfully.
    Stealth is required to execute some moves, but no bearing on damage dealt.
    Ki-attack = base damage up to 2 x base damage. Resisted
    focus attack = ~20% above base damage. Resisted
    backstab = 2 x base damage. Not resisted
    Deathstrike = 50% of base damage resisted, then 1 second later base damage resisted.
    Surprise attack = base damage resisted.

    I could be wrong, but that is/was my experience of training them up and using them since.
    The only thing that ninjitsu skill level does help with, is the amount of damage healed while in cat/dog form. No doubt someone will have exact figures, but I dont think i'm far out with the above.
  • Ok that's wildly different than the descriptions, was why I asked.  With backstab seeming very strong why do people favor deathstrike?  Is the damage capped in PvP on it?
  • ShannowShannow Posts: 35
    well with deathstrike you can stack them. That involves hitting successfully every 1.25 seconds with the move.
    Each hit does half damage resisted.
    Then after 3 successful hits, it applies double the base damage resisted,
    With only 2 stacked hits, it does 130% base damage vs the 200% with 3 hits.
  • Thanks for the reply, I've been asking in help chat.  Seem like no one knows how ninja works lol.
  • ShannowShannow Posts: 35
    Seems like everyone picks bushido or necro or something else. Probably due to how many other skills are needed to make full use of being a ninja. So as a result no one has a ninja to know how it works.
    I have it on 2 chars for differing reasons.
    I have changed both of their skills several times, trying to make affective templates.
    At the minute my future PVP char is a poisoner with focus and stealing (makes 720 skill points with gm hiding, ninjitsu, stealth and fencing).
    Focus will be dropped for something else soon, probably tactics or snooping.
    I'll then have to start pinching skill points off stealth and stealing by adding them back with items.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 961
    I don't know the full mechanics but I've played ninja characters. 

    Focus attack and Deathstrike are all I ever needed to use. Hld and splinter is included in the double hit spells with focus attack. 

    I have a chart somewhere on Deathstrike damage scale vs stealth level. GM stealth is 34 though if the victim runs. 

    You can use these abilities with mage weps too. 
  • Urge said:
    I don't know the full mechanics but I've played ninja characters. 

    Focus attack and Deathstrike are all I ever needed to use. Hld and splinter is included in the double hit spells with focus attack. 

    I have a chart somewhere on Deathstrike damage scale vs stealth level. GM stealth is 34 though if the victim runs. 

    You can use these abilities with mage weps too. 
    Thanks, I'll Google around for that.  Seems like with all the deathstrikers that's the most figured out.  Quick question about it, does the stealth damage bonus work off modified or is it real skill only?  From other forums they say max damage is 50, I'm assuming this is at 120 120 or like 120 100 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 961
    Damage can be based off modified. Tracking used to give a bonus but I think they took it off. 

    I haven't tested it in years. The rest of the spells don't really apply or generally suck. 

    Focus attack, Deathstrike, mirror image and shadowjump are all I've ever used. 

    Ninja mastery is great too. Tiger form is amazing. 
  • Urge said:
    Damage can be based off modified. Tracking used to give a bonus but I think they took it off. 

    I haven't tested it in years. The rest of the spells don't really apply or generally suck. 

    Focus attack, Deathstrike, mirror image and shadowjump are all I've ever used. 

    Ninja mastery is great too. Tiger form is amazing. 
    I have a macer with parry and a refined DCI suit, was reading about that tiger form and giggling at its bonuses, good lord that'd be 75 dci with parry and the evade bonus.  Matrix stuff right there.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 961
    Yeah I'm not sure why it hasn't been abused yet.  
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