What's the point of having a TOS if only select players need to abide by it?

Tempest

I highly doubt this topic will last long but we will see maybe the moderators will let the discussion go.

Why is cheating allowed to be so widespread in UO without any action ever being taken? The cheaters do not even try to hide the fact anymore uploading constant video's of themselves with unapproved 3rd party programs running. I know the excuse from the development team is that these programs are under review but that doesn't make them LEGAL to use maybe in the future it might although that would be a terrible mistake but as of right now these programs are unapproved therefore illegal and users should have actions taken against them. Maybe the reason they are allowed to continue is simply because they cannot detect who is running what or maybe they simply just choose not to care? I don't know the reason but the endless cheating is ruining the game possibly to the point of no return. When you have players with scripted casting, scripted stone walls and now even bots the cheating needs to end.

Most of us all pay our monthly subscription fee to follow the ToS / RoC and we expect that same commitment to be followed by our fellow players and if they choose to break the rules then we expect that punishment be dished out accordingly by the development team.

(removed by Mariah)

There are some sample video's after a short search of YouTube. I doubt they will be allowed to stay up long as it seems the dev team would prefer to sweep the problem under the rug rather then address it.

I just cannot understand how a company can allow cheaters to negatively impact the enjoyment of their customers.

WornOutYourTool

Most existing customers are "cheaters", banning would mean very few customers.  Rock and a hard place.

King_Greg

. Those are just modified art files, which is still against the TOS, Kind of like how Uoassist can make you look like a skeleton on your screen without a costume but no one else can see it. The videos above don't require a 3rd party program running though.

I'd gladly sign a petition for them to make the option for simplified field spells. 

Tim

WornOutYourTool said:

Most existing customers are "cheaters", banning would mean very few customers.  Rock and a hard place.

No the majority of players self identify as rarely or never PvP. That's according to polls done here, admittedly a small sample but Broadsword knows the truth from server traffic logs. 

In the rest of the game cheaters are like the neighbour who won't cut his grass annoying but doesn't really affect your game play unless you want it to. 

That's the reason I point and laugh at PvPs. Why are you playing and defending a portion of the game you know is "fixed"?

Petra_Fyde

Question: Would you rather the team spent their time chasing down these accounts, which requires actually catching them in the act, not watching a video, or developing the game and investigating and fixing bugs?

Another Question: If you delegated this task to GMs should they stop answering help calls to do it?  

There are only so many hours in a day and only a finite number of Broadsword employees, rather less than the number of cheaters you can find.  They do catch and remove some, as posted on the newsletters, there is a large difference between what is desirable and what is possible. Many older players understand that. 

Bilbo

I am not defending any cheaters but people that have been here for a long time accept certain facts of life when it comes to UO and
FACT #1 is that the all mighty GREEN, $$$$, controls everything when it comes to UO.
FACT #2 Always refer to FACT #1 when thinking about doing anything to UO end of FACTs.

Didn't Bonnie once say at a M/G that as long as you answered a GM that it was ok to use whatever program and that the only people that would be actioned were true AFKers and multiboxers.

Also EA, who owns UO and DAoC by the way, have allowed this along with RMTs for so long that sadly nothing will ever be done about it because if you start to cut into the bottom line, you know that green stuff, then they, EA, will be forced to stop paying BS to manage UO/DAoC and then there will be no cheating or RMT because UO will no longer exist.  Nothing major will ever happen in UO/DAoC without EAs approval.

WornOutYourTool

Tim said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Most existing customers are "cheaters", banning would mean very few customers.  Rock and a hard place.

No the majority of players self identify as rarely or never PvP. That's according to polls done here, admittedly a small sample but Broadsword knows the truth from server traffic logs. 

In the rest of the game cheaters are like the neighbour who won't cut his grass annoying but doesn't really affect your game play unless you want it to. 

That's the reason I point and laugh at PvPs. Why are you playing and defending a portion of the game you know is "fixed"?

Didnt mention PvP anywhere in my post.  Something on your mind?  

Economy is trashed by the non PvP ones, haven and Luna is a noisy mess of scripted training, events are farmed.  These things affect me.  You're confused in thinking I am complaining.  I merely pointed out why many don't get banned.

Tempest

King_Greg said:

. Those are just modified art files, which is still against the TOS, Kind of like how Uoassist can make you look like a skeleton on your screen without a costume but no one else can see it. The videos above don't require a 3rd party program running though.

I'd gladly sign a petition for them to make the option for simplified field spells. 

.... and the video's with health percentages above player names? are you seriously going to sit there and try to spew the narrative because you 'claim' it's just modified art file when it's a known feature of UOS to also alter field spells? Come on buddy be better then that and find a rational counter argument instead of trying to divert attention away with your misconceptions.

Petra_Fyde said:

Question: Would you rather the team spent their time chasing down these accounts, which requires actually catching them in the act, not watching a video, or developing the game and investigating and fixing bugs?

Another Question: If you delegated this task to GMs should they stop answering help calls to do it?  

There are only so many hours in a day and only a finite number of Broadsword employees, rather less than the number of cheaters you can find.  They do catch and remove some, as posted on the newsletters, there is a large difference between what is desirable and what is possible. Many older players understand that. 

What a nonsense response lol. I honestly not sure if your just trolling or not?

Of course I want the team to 'chase' down these accounts and take action against them it's what they are there for to uphold the ToS. I have no idea why you want to claim there is not time to actively develop the game or answer help requests. Why would you consider preventing players from cheating any less important then fixing bugs or adding new content?

Not one player banned listed on a newsletter has been banned for 3rd party program use other then the one that's used for macroing and that's an entirely different topic.

I find it ironic that players get worked up about some loser named Avatar advertising his site and want immediate GM and Dev Team action taken upon him. Yet when other's want the GM's to do their job and ensure that all players are adhering to the games rules and regulations you will sit there and try to justify their lack of effort in enforcing their own rules. But I mean as long as it doesn't negatively impact your play style then it's ok to turn a blind eye to the problem is pretty much your argument?

But I mean it's ok for cheaters to drive away other paying customers who abide by the rules?

King_Greg

Tempest said:

King_Greg said:

. Those are just modified art files, which is still against the TOS, Kind of like how Uoassist can make you look like a skeleton on your screen without a costume but no one else can see it. The videos above don't require a 3rd party program running though.

I'd gladly sign a petition for them to make the option for simplified field spells. 

.... and the video's with health percentages above player names? are you seriously going to sit there and try to spew the narrative because you 'claim' it's just modified art file when it's a known feature of UOS to also alter field spells? Come on buddy be better then that and find a rational counter argument instead of trying to divert attention away with your misconceptions.

Where do you think they got the idea.... swapping out the images for the field spells has been around for way longer than that program. And yet again, it doesn't require a 3rd party program running to do it. 

Health percentages above peoples heads.... Something you can mod into the enhanced client..... Ban them all for such an advantage. Add that one to my petition for the classic client as well. 

Want to ban players for this sort of thing, Great. But i'd rather see the manpower and time spent bringing the classic client of a retro game to the 21st century with some features for different playstyles, while retaining the look. And bringing back a real bank for EJ accounts with limited weight. 

Do both of those things and my god we might actually see some pvpers return to OSI. 

Tim

WornOutYourTool said:

Tim said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Most existing customers are "cheaters", banning would mean very few customers.  Rock and a hard place.

No the majority of players self identify as rarely or never PvP. That's according to polls done here, admittedly a small sample but Broadsword knows the truth from server traffic logs. 

In the rest of the game cheaters are like the neighbour who won't cut his grass annoying but doesn't really affect your game play unless you want it to. 

That's the reason I point and laugh at PvPs. Why are you playing and defending a portion of the game you know is "fixed"?

Didnt mention PvP anywhere in my post.  Something on your mind?  

Economy is trashed by the non PvP ones, haven and Luna is a noisy mess of scripted training, events are farmed.  These things affect me.  You're confused in thinking I am complaining.  I merely pointed out why many don't get banned.

Yes you didn't mention PvP but the first poster included videos (now removed by moderator) and they were all PvP. 
I'm sorry if you think I was criticizing you I was just trying to point out a more probable reason clamping down on 3rd party programs is not a priority. 

PS I do agree with you on how the game could be better with out cheaters but I think they are a minor annoyance that don't really don't hurt me that much.

Tempest

King_Greg said:

Tempest said:

King_Greg said:

. Those are just modified art files, which is still against the TOS, Kind of like how Uoassist can make you look like a skeleton on your screen without a costume but no one else can see it. The videos above don't require a 3rd party program running though.

I'd gladly sign a petition for them to make the option for simplified field spells. 

.... and the video's with health percentages above player names? are you seriously going to sit there and try to spew the narrative because you 'claim' it's just modified art file when it's a known feature of UOS to also alter field spells? Come on buddy be better then that and find a rational counter argument instead of trying to divert attention away with your misconceptions.

Where do you think they got the idea.... swapping out the images for the field spells has been around for way longer than that program. And yet again, it doesn't require a 3rd party program running to do it. 

Health percentages above peoples heads.... Something you can mod into the enhanced client..... Ban them all for such an advantage. Add that one to my petition for the classic client as well. 

Want to ban players for this sort of thing, Great. But i'd rather see the manpower and time spent bringing the classic client of a retro game to the 21st century with some features for different playstyles, while retaining the look. And bringing back a real bank for EJ accounts with limited weight. 

Do both of those things and my god we might actually see some pvpers return to OSI. 

Typical King Greg highlighting aspects of the conversation to detract away from the problem at hand. The video's were merely documented proof of numerous players using said 3rd party programs. Whether or not health percentages or field mod's would be good additions to the game is another discussion so I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to defend the use of cheaters in my thread and start your own requesting said features. The only reason I even mention health percentages is because there is no legal way in Classic Client to do that currently and as such is proof of use of 3rd party programs which you claimed weren't being used because they are 'just client mods' which is inaccurate and you are spreading false information to people.

You want pvpers to actually return? then clean up the damn game and promote a competitive PvP scene without cheating for starters? When people watch video on youtube and see the majority of players using cheats it's a turn off shows that the dev team doesn't care about the quality of product they oversee.

Tempest

oh look another poster has issue with the same programs yet still nothing gets done!?!

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/3918/illegal-3rd-party-progams-is-ruining-pvp#latest

Tis absolutely shocking that this game cannot retain any new players!

Lynk

Im sure youre right.  PvPers having hit point % above someones head is definitely causing new players to quit.  Because new players certainly jump into high level PvP right away.  


Do you ever read your own posts?

WornOutYourTool

Lynk said:

Im sure youre right.  PvPers having hit point % above someones head is definitely causing new players to quit.  Because new players certainly jump into high level PvP right away.  


Do you ever read your own posts?

Tempests slightly right in kinda a backwards way.  It's the old players (usually pve focused) that teach new players, advising that PvP is all about cheating that turns off some of the newbies that are actually interested in PvP.  

All I do when not in fel is help new players in haven, and I see it all the time.  I get into a lot of arguments over it.  PvP is fun, you have nothing to lose, you can compete with skill and thought, its not the end of the world, just annoying sometimes.

Bilbo

WornOutYourTool said:

Lynk said:

Im sure youre right.  PvPers having hit point % above someones head is definitely causing new players to quit.  Because new players certainly jump into high level PvP right away.  


Do you ever read your own posts?

Tempests slightly right in kinda a backwards way.  It's the old players (usually pve focused) that teach new players, advising that PvP is all about cheating that turns off some of the newbies that are actually interested in PvP.  

All I do when not in fel is help new players in haven, and I see it all the time.  I get into a lot of arguments over it.  PvP is fun, you have nothing to lose, you can compete with skill and thought, its not the end of the world, just annoying sometimes.

You are full of crap, we do not teach new players that PvP is full of cheaters.

WornOutYourTool

Bilbo said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Lynk said:

Im sure youre right.  PvPers having hit point % above someones head is definitely causing new players to quit.  Because new players certainly jump into high level PvP right away.  


Do you ever read your own posts?

Tempests slightly right in kinda a backwards way.  It's the old players (usually pve focused) that teach new players, advising that PvP is all about cheating that turns off some of the newbies that are actually interested in PvP.  

All I do when not in fel is help new players in haven, and I see it all the time.  I get into a lot of arguments over it.  PvP is fun, you have nothing to lose, you can compete with skill and thought, its not the end of the world, just annoying sometimes.

You are full of crap, we do not teach new players that PvP is full of cheaters.

And you're cute for thinking this string of posts applied to every single new player and not a case of just a common occurrence.  But thanks for the shout out grandmaster of Atlantic new haven, 

MissE

We on Oceania have been reporting an afk scripter for OVER a year and that person still operates daily.  We have even gone to live streaming this person for all to see, sessions of up to 15 hours have been recorded, although any time of the day is normally good to go watch yourself.  You can go through that twitch account to watch more sessions.  @Mesanna and @Kyronix have done NOTHING to stop this person. 

Sure when a gm rocks up a 'bell' must ring as after about 5 mins of a gm pestering the person they will eventually answer, actually watched that process a couple of times now.  I am sure the gm's just keep asking 'will you say something' over and over until they eventually do, then they go 'ok have a nice day' and leave. It is actually laughable how long they give the person to respond.  I once watched them asking for at least 10mins so I guess they are just giving the person a free pass.  The thread on Oceania forum gives more detail.  If you drop a chest in front of the 'door' they use to go into the room the toon will just stall there until such time as the chest decays, even tho it is NOT blocking the door as there are two doors there so all they need to do is step one tile to the sth.  Also watched that char stand there at that chest for well over 30mins til I got bored.  Same as if you can 'assist' the char by casting energy fields around it to keep the dark guardians off, although the char doesn't use your assistance as for some reason it still stands there where it can't hit them... often resulting in death..  All a gm needs to do is drop a chest and watch, but that is too hard.

This same person also abuses the YOUNG account it has hidden in same space with 5 gamans to increase the spawn rate, where it then auto loots the 14 bodies of gold and maps then auto runs to wbb where it disposes of the maps for clean up points.  I have been shown the 'vendors' of this person on atlantic with HUNDREDS of clean up point items for sale. This char will auto log when said char dies, also when anyone shows up.  The toon also was operating on other shards so god only knows how much it is raking in a day.

It is total bull dust that they are interested in stopping this person.  @Petra_Fyde the devs don't have to 'investigate' this or try and catch them or chase them down, they have been provided with AMPLE information, even the live streaming feed where they could watch.  Some of those feeds show where some players have assisted this toon with fields, which again, show quite clearly that the toon is unattended as they do NOTHING to stop themselves dropping dead.

This is what makes you shake  your head in disgust and actually wonder who the dev's think they are kidding with the so call 'actions' they put on the newsletter.  When stuff is this blatant and nothing is done you know the whole thing is utter rubbish.  There is NO effort to enforce the TOS.

Trismegistos

The war was lost at day#2 in 1997.

Mariah

I think this has gone as far as it can go.