TRITON : yet another "lost" opportunity for Taming in Ultima Online ?
It is my understanding, that the Triton has been considerably lowered in its Hit Points while being being given overcapped Resisting Spells and Wrestling.
While certainly the overcapped Resisting Spells and Wrestling are a nice addition for new and returning players who often cannot afford two of the most expensive Powerscrolls (resisting goes for what ? 50 millions ?), the lowering so much of the Triton's hit points risks making it so much nerfed to the point that it will not be able to be used as a "top" damager, to be "on par" with the high end damage which often Templates, other then Tamers, can do.... Melee, Ranged, Spellcasting....
The Triton could have been yet another opportunity to give to Tamers in Ultima Online, finally, the chance to compete "on par" with other combat skills Templates but, given the changes, this might no longer be ?
But I definitively am in support of the overcapped Wrestling and Resisting spells which comes to the aid of new and returning players who cannot afford those outrageously priced Powerscrolls.
Yet, I also think that Taming in Ultima Online desperately needs a pet that can make Tamers in Ultima Online compete on an equal footing with other combat Templates for looting rights.
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The "other" non-taming combat skills, whether melee, ranged or spellcasting, most often "top" Tamers in looting rights and, therefore, get to receive the best items in best quantities....
The Triton "could" be an opportunity to (finally) even out things in between Tamers and other non-Tamers' combat skills but, in such a case, the Triton needs to be a pet worth its salt and capable of doing some serious damage to grant its Tamer master looting rights even when having to compete with a Melee, Ranged or Spellcaster template.
When soloing a spawn there is no looting rights issue, of course, everything goes to the character soloing that spawn....
And through reading, I have bumped into posts from Tamers who, even if they had been using fully trained up pets, complained about still not receiving the same quality and quantity of good loot when competing for looting rights with other combat Templates in UO.
Now, it sure can be that those Tamers posting may have trained up their pets wrongly and, thus, not fully benefitting of them when competing for looting right against other combat Templates.... that, I have no idea, of course.
Yet, since the Triton is being worked on NOW, I felt the need to voice up my concern now, in case what I read was indeed true, in the hope that then the Design of the Triton might be one more helpfull to Tamers rather then yet another pet like many others with which Tamers might not be able to compete against other combat Templates for looting rights for good quality items.
I hope that other players, well versed and knowledged in the ins and outs of the current status of Taming in Ultima Online, might post their personal experience with their fully trained pets and whether their use, to their opinion and feeling, has granted them, when competing against other combat Templates (Melee, Ranged, Spellcasters) for looting rights, the same Quality and Quantity of high end items as these other combat Templates do get.
I haven't checked the Triton out yet but if it's overcapped then it already has a major advantage over other pets.
The tamer/samp balance is just that. It's balanced right now. There is no pet that can equal the damage to a max swing samp/ranged but the tradeoff comes that the tamer is mostly safe behind the pet while other templates have to get down and dirty. I can wear garbage armor on my tamers and compete while the other templates have to deal with armor, durability and replacement and slayers.
It seems like a pretty fair tradeoff to me.
No longer true, I am afraid, if what I read about new high end Bosses is valid..... that is, that at least the high end Bosses who most often "teleport" the Tamer right at their feet.....
And while the Melee and even ranged characters are often "tailored" for that, Tamers are not....
So, the "assumed" safety of a Tamer nowadays, I understand, is no longer valid.
How about before complaining about things, go out and test them yourself. That goes for everyone. So many people do nothing but complain about everything because they saw someone else say something, therefore it must be true.
The Triton went through various testing periods on TC and was given lots of feedback by experienced tamers. The Developers took that feedback and adjusted the Triton how they felt it needed to be adjusted. The Triton is still available on TC, you can still get one, train it, play with it, and make your own opinion about it. I encourage everyone to do so.
If you cannot get looting rights as a tamer, you are doing something incredibly wrong. I could probably get looting rights with the most horribly spec'd pet out there.
How are other templates getting a better "Quality and Quantity of high end items"? Looting rights are looting rights. I see more tamers in full luck suits than I see Sampires.
Taming is not a solo skill build. You invest 360 points max into taming (Taming/Lore/Vet). You now have 360 skill points left to supplement your build. Whether that is Magery/Eval/Med, or Magery/Med/Spellweaving, or something else, it is up to you. If you are trying to compare a tamer that utilizes only 360 skill points, vs a highly refined template like a Sampire or Dragoon, that utilizes 720+ skill points, you are going to have a bad time.
There is content tamers can do much better than Sampires, and there is content Sampires can do much better than tamers. There is also content that is friendly to both.
Mobs teleporting the tamer into them, therefore tamers can't do any high end content? Invis/heal yourself? There with a group? Cross heal/invis. I see so many tamers that think playing a tamer is just standing there going "All Kill" and having no other interaction with the content.
You want to compare that to a sampire, a sampire needs to be constantly on their toes and triggering abilities/spells. They need to watch for miss streaks where they may need to retreat and heal, or pop evasion. You people make it seem like a sampire walks up to high end content, hits war mode, and goes afk (however that is essentially what a lot of tamers do).
I have both a Sampire and several Tamers. I don't prefer one over the other, I use both effectively and differently, and both are viable specs.
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Enlighten me Bilbo/Frodo, what testing did you do on the Triton? How is the tamer class in general nerfed by adjustments made to an unreleased pet? I am curious. Prove that you are nothing more than a Troll on these forums for once.
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I have multiple tamer templates that did well in high end content before pet advancement and extremely well now that I have super pets.
I stand by my statement that I feel it's balanced. Samps and ranged templates require so much more in terms of items and skill. Just one cameo sells for more than I have invested scrolling a pet, my character and my suit combined.
And while a non-Tamer combat Template, of course an experienced one, can earn that Cameo on their own, may I ask whether an experienced Tamer, well versed in the training of tameables, would be able to earn that same Cameo, on their own just as well ?
Yes, I do not have the taming experience, yet, I can read, and as I said in an earlier Post when I said "And through reading, I have bumped into posts from Tamers who, even if they had been using fully trained up pets, complained about still not receiving the same quality and quantity of good loot when competing for looting rights with other combat Templates in UO." I cannot help but reading about Tamers, certainly more experienced then me, who lament the Taming skill in Ultima Online as NOT being on par with other, non-Taming combat skills like Melee, Ranged and Spellcasting.
I also noted, "Now, it sure can be that those Tamers posting may have trained up their pets wrongly and, thus, not fully benefitting of them when competing for looting right against other combat Templates.... that, I have no idea, of course."
Now, who is right ?
Those who claim that Taming is NOT on-par with the other non-Taming combat Melee, Ranged and Spellcasting skills ?
Or those who instead claim that Taming is fine as it is and not "inferior" to the other non-Taming combat skills ?
As I said, I currently lack the experience in the new Taming mechanics to be able to say that with certainty, YET, I think that nonetheless, I do have the right, as a player of Ultima Online, to raise my concern sprouted upon reading such laments from various Tamers.
Of course, it will be up to Developers to evaluate the issue and determine whether there may or may not be an issue with Taming and whether they even want to address it.
Personally, if I can voice up my personal opinion, I think that Taming in Ultima Online should not be Designed to be a "lesser" Skill as compared to other non-Taming combat skills.
Now, could perhaps the Triton help Taming in Ultima Online to come more "on par" with the other non-Taming combat skills ?
That is up to the Developers to decide and in relation to where they want Taming to be in Ultima Online and in relation to the other, non-Taming combat skills.
Let's not forget, also, for the better sake of Ultima Online as a whole, "how popular" Taming might be among its players' base....
I often hear talks of how important it is to enlarge UO's players base..... well, "perhaps", just perhaps, coming forward to content (taming ?) which is so highly popular in Ultima Online "could" be a way to attract more players to Ultima Online ?
Just a thought.....
A few days later, I was cleaning out my backpack and guess what. I got the drop from event. So my Chiv/Cu that is scrolled, that only has 600 hp managed to net me a drop. I often times get the skulls from the champ spawns when I go with a group (in which I am the only tamer) and often get drops from peerless and other bosses and always do enough damage to get a loot box.
Unless there is something I am missing, I wonder what pet they are using?
One major thing I have noticed with many tamers is that they use the same pet for everything. (often guilty)
There are a large variety of pets and if you take a pet that is going to put all the damage into what the boss/monster has high resists in, you aren't gonna do the most damage.
If those tamers would build pets for specific/different bosses, maybe they would do more damage.
So 6 drops were to LS residents! Woot!
4 to Cus and one beetle. 1 thrower Yay LS.
Oops I guess this kinda goes against the OPs point about tamers not getting drops.
Just accept it. You are Frodo.
Can someone post pictures of this pet in question that they built, skilled and tested on TC?
I've only seen pics and results of my tests. Would love to see what others built and tested.
By the way, is there a list somewhere of all Bosses who do not switch aggro to the tamer thus consenting the vetting of the pet ?
Or is it so much small that they can be listed counting the fingers of one hand ?
What tamer has a fully trained pet out there in the game fighting stuff and doesn’t get looting rights when the fight is over?
I made my tamer last spring, but only began taming and training pets in January. In the past three months, I have “gifted” fully trained pets - including scrolls on skills - to friends who gave me fully trained pets back when my tamer was first made and I didn’t know anything about the training process.
It took me two weeks at most to learn the training process and how to most efficiently train a pet. (Hint: the training Planner is your best friend behind Animal Lore.)
While I’m still technically in my animal taming infancy, I get admiration from the best tamers on my shard for the pets I’ve worked on. (And also for the fact that I specialize in uncommon pets.)
Pet Training seems complicated but is actually quite easy if you know where to get information and finally start doing it. (Suggestion: do your first go-around with training on a throw-away pet like a Unicorn.)
That said, I also don’t understand this mindset that Tamers can’t keep up with Samps, Ranged Archers, or Mages.
I have always thought - in my 13 years playing UO - that Tamers had an advantage over everyone else at boss fights because pets actually do a tremendous amount of damage compared to players with the same templates.
I was in a guild for years where over half the people at Lady M or Corgul or EM events were tamers. And those players ALWAYS got the major drops over Samps and Mages.
Now that I am actively pet training and using pets, I do see the aspects of taming that are inferior, but it’s a trade off.
For example: player controlled pets run out of mana insanely quick, no matter how high their mana or Mana Regen is, while NPC creatures seem to almost never run out of mana.
Also it’s getting very old, very fast how inferior every other template is on a pet compared to Chiv/AI. (I was sick to death of Chiv/AI as of my third trained pet.)
But the answer to Tamers who want something better ISN’T a base superOP pet that can be claimed with Pirate Doubloons.
The first answer to the Triton problem is that if this is a pet that can only be obtained through claiming Pirate Hunting points, every single Triton better start off with the exact same stats. Otherwise, what’s the point in claiming one when it could be so incredibly underpowered that you just wasted your Doubloons?
Second, the Devs need to re-evaluate all trainable creatures in the game to give Tamers a wider variety of pets to choose from and use. The Giant Beetle and Fire Beetle are 1 slot at taming and trainable to 5 slots. That’s fantastic. Kewl. People have figured out they can have superOP Beetles because they have four rounds of training points to use. No problem. Now give me the opportunity to train up an Eagle or Cat or Rabbit or Sheep or Snake to 5 slot.
Third, if the Triton is going to be so superOP untrained that no other pet could possibly compete against it - then lower the initial slots of other pets. Give me a 1 or 2 slot Dragon or Phoenix or Platinum Drake or Cu or Tsuki Wolf.
Fourth, fix the options for pet magic abilities, special moves, special abilities, and area effects. Chiv/AI should NOT be the only viable template on a pet. If there are options to put on a pet, the Devs need to make them worth putting on a pet. If a pet has innate magic and is 100% fire damage? Then adding anything to enhance those innate abilities should make those stronger and more powerful. A pet’s natural damage type should be enhanced by adding that kind of damage area effect or special ability. (Or should enhance the area effect or ability. A Phoenix with Raging Breath should do a decent amount of damage because it’s 100% Fire Damage naturally and Raging Breath is a fire attack.)
Fifth, they need to fix the stupid Detect Hidden bullcrap on pets. Either remove it or give us a decent chance to train it.
Sixth, make pets act as slayers. A tamer with a pet at Lady M isn’t going to get any extra damage bonus because she’s holding a Fey Slayer spellbook. So if I take a Tsuki Wolf to Lady M, it should do more damage to her because he’s a demon creature and it’s opposite to Fey.
"Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
And @PlayerSkillFTW knows how to use his pet and player together.
Darn. I thought this was the thread about tamers not getting drops.
Being so new to taming and training pets, I flip-flop on if I have skin in the game or if I have a new, fresh perspective to offer.
My impression of pets doing more damage than players comes from comparing my Chiv/AI pets to my Samp. I have watched my Cu’s AI and my Frost Drake’s AI hit for over 200.
My Samp’s best AI hit falls somewhere around 170-180.
A pet’s non-AI hit is nowhere near what my Samp can land typically ... but the AI hits are definitely harder.
"Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
Usually when I use my mage tamer I let the pet do the bulk of the damage and I end the fight with word of death.
You can play interactive with the pet or just keep its HP up and watch it fight. That increases the fun when you can play as you feel at the moment.
Welcome to taming!!