Brittle & Large

Tim

So let me get this straight the Producers are 

1. Cowards who fold and change things at the slightest criticism 
2. Don't know how the programs they wrote work and what was intended.

Im calling it 

Bilbo

Mervyn said:

Brittle items spawn with max durability, they do not require PoF.

OMG Did you really say that, you really do prove daily that you do not know squat about UO.  Have you ever heard of PoFing an item that has lost Max Durability, talk about someone that is totally clueless.

Mervyn

Yeah I do it if I’m too lazy to repair an item at 0 dura and let it break. 

But thanks for reminding me I “know squat about uo” and that I’m “totally clueless” about this game. 

Funny i seem to be competing rather well for someone so clueless.

Cinderella

@Mervyn when mine broke, it was when I was trying to repair it... and it was NOT at 0.
I don't appreciate you calling me a liar.
My cousin DID try to repair something for me about 10 years ago, that broke...
but what I was referring to, actually happened in the summer of 2015.
It was a brittle item and I was using my character to repair it, using a repair deed.
Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
If brittle items aren't supposed to break, when repaired, then this was a bug that caused me to lose an item... and it happened on two different items but using the same char.

when I told some people (non UO personnel) about it breaking, they said they had heard there is like a 2% chance for them to break, but I have never heard it substantiated by the DEVs. And I always forget about asking about it at Dev meet & greets... 

I don't remember if I reported it as a bug (with in game option), cause when you do that, you always get an email, saying they don't replace lost or stolen items and this is for account related billing issues... [they should really change those links to go to where they are supposed to. its very frustrating)

and before you say that its only a bug that I have... 
as far as I know, nobody else can get someone guard whacked for healing them, but a guildmate of mine can... and does...

Mervyn

I didn't call you a liar, i said respectfully you're mistaken.

I can't locate any documentation on chances to destroy an item on repair, and moreover anecdotally I've never heard of items being destroyed on repair this decade. (And anecdotally in my guild is a lot of decades of experience.) 

I did however find this interesting formula:

Chance to lose Durability = ((40 + Max Durability) - Current Durability) - (repairSkill / 100) (where repair skill is Test Center-style, i.e. GM = 1000, not 100.0)

If an item has taken more than 71 points of damage, the chance for it to lose a point of durability reaches 100% even for a Legendary smith.

Thus proving that anyone who repairs things before they reach 0/255 is wasting durability.

Cookie

The formula says nothing more than - you will lose durability if you repair something - pretty much.

I think everyone knows that.

Pulling out of a 1 or 2 hour event you are doing with team-mates, or by yourself, at 0 durability is really annoying, or sometimes an impossibility, meaning if you leave it to get down to 0, you stand a chance of losing far more than just the 1 dura loss from an early repair.

Again, this is my issue - what it means for an actual players gameplay. Having to pull out to do repairs, is an effect on the whole team, just one of those things you can all do without.

It seems to me, this debate is between those who have unlimited time to play this game = you, and those who don't = me. You have the time, patience and the willingness to carry this factor in your headspace while you play - I don't.

CovenantX

 @Mervyn ;  I had the same thought when I read that part of the transcript as well.

but, the devs don't play UO enough to notice these things, so it really didn't surprise me.

Trade forums seems to suggest Brittle is only a negative if it's combined with Splintering Weapon.

- I agree.

 However, I'd rather the inconsistency between clean & antique items regarding PoF be addressed to better balance this, instead of potentially ruining brittle.   -there's a history of over-doing it here in UO, and that often causes worse problems.

I do heavily disagree with the change the devs have made to brittle with global loot.

finding a clean ('clean" mean't usable, for those that don't remember) legendary prior to global loot was a much more rewarding experience... not so much anymore.

Now that Clean =/= Brittle for most equipment it really doesn't matter anymore.... it's even worse when you get a clean jewelry piece because you know you get nothing out of the rarity of it...  Anyway, How is this still a thing?

Pawain

Mervyn said:

I notice for a tamer mage there’s no luck on this piece. You probably just switch to a luck suit when the creature is redlined. 

I do not own a luck suit and have never used the switch suit macro. Or even dress myself.  So what are you saying about making caricatures?

(my miner has a luck suit to mine and it is her only suit. My tamers dont look good in pink so its only hers.)

Arron

Mervyn said:

I didn't call you a liar, i said respectfully you're mistaken.

I can't locate any documentation on chances to destroy an item on repair, and moreover anecdotally I've never heard of items being destroyed on repair this decade. (And anecdotally in my guild is a lot of decades of experience.) 

I did however find this interesting formula:

Chance to lose Durability = ((40 + Max Durability) - Current Durability) - (repairSkill / 100) (where repair skill is Test Center-style, i.e. GM = 1000, not 100.0)

If an item has taken more than 71 points of damage, the chance for it to lose a point of durability reaches 100% even for a Legendary smith.

Thus proving that anyone who repairs things before they reach 0/255 is wasting durability.

So are you saying you have to repair at 184 or more durability if you dont want to lose durability on repair????

Mervyn

Am I saying that? No, that formula came from a “five on Friday” from Mesanna. Maths says that (if the formula is accurate)

Mervyn

Another point:

when you reforge brittle items, they are crafted with low durability. 

Even with fortified it’s still low:

• Structural Re-Forging:causes the item to have more magical power, but the item will be Brittle
  • Fortified Re-Forging: causes the brittle item to have higher durability

Ducan_IronWeaver

CovenantX said:

it's even worse when you get a clean jewelry piece because you know you get nothing out of the rarity of it...  Anyway, How is this still a thing?

Have you ever sold or bought high end jewlery/armor before? If you get a clean piece of jewlery that is not antique they sell for way more gold then it would if the same piece has antique..
A good ring/brace that doesn't have antique on it sell for so much more.. You absolutely do get more out of for its rarity.

Ducan_IronWeaver

Mervyn said:

Brittle items spawn with max durability, they do not require PoF.

They dont require pof but you cant keep pof'ing it back to full durability..
Brittle's curse is that you can not bring the dura back up once you lose it. A brittle item is basicly a imbued item. It is not supposed to be a dramatic over the top negative like antique items..

If the brittle armor that you are using doesn't burn thru its durability semi fast. You are either using a tamer, an archer while you have another person tank, a mage/mystic with a summons/someone else tanking or just bank sitting most of your time and not hunting..

If you are hunting with a melee character and taking the brunt of the damage the dura drops pretty quick.. My brittle armor drops from 255 down to 0 after like 4 rounds champ spawn runs.

Mervyn

Care to share some pics of your warn down brittle legendaries?

Cookie

Mervyn said:

Care to share some pics of your warn down brittle legendaries?

I cannot. because they are gone.

The above is my latest piece that is causing me concern.

This is something like my 5th Lieutenants Sash - admitted not a brittle legendary, but I'm fed up with this, and will be replacing with an original.

I can tell you one thing for sure, once you hit the 100 odd mark, the speed of repair required, just gets faster and faster - this piece won't last long, each time I take it out almost, it will need a repair.

Mervyn

Ummm that’s a replica, it starts on 150 dura not 255..

255 dura items have 2.88 times as much potential durability than 150 durability items.

(255+254+253...)=32640
(150+149+148...)=11325

Cookie

Mervyn said:

Ummm that’s a replica, it starts on 150 dura not 255..

I know, and that's why I said "admitted not a brittle legendary".

But, and this is a key point, it starts on 150 durability like you say, and one of the things you are requesting, is to bring the max durability of items down (to 150), if I remember your previous posts correctly.

That will bring all items, on all characters, into this exact same replica annoyance zone.

Mervyn

You say annoyance I say “Curse” it is a curse.

your argument about the game having more hurdles holds 0 weight. Everything is automatic now. Stat loss reduced, soulstone cooldown reduced, 100 LRC, blessed bandages and arrows. I could go off on a tangent listing all the easy mode automations that have been introduced in each publish but let us just say I strongly disagree. 

Cookie

Mervyn said:

You say annoyance I say “Curse” it is a curse.

your argument about the game having more hurdles holds 0 weight. Everything is automatic now. Stat loss reduced, soulstone cooldown reduced, 100 LRC, blessed bandages and arrows. I could go off on a tangent listing all the easy mode automations that have been introduced in each publish but let us just say I strongly disagree. 

Do you like to play the entire game? I do.

How do you fit in;

Mining all the coloured ores you want.

Lumberjacking all the coloured woods you want.

Gathering all the leather you want.

Completing all 8 types of BODS in large enough quantities to get rewards.

Doing enough spawns to get all the scrolls you ever need, for yourself, all your pets, and to sell.

PvMing enough to collect all the armour you want for your characters.

Doing enough Bosses to collect all the Artifacts you want.

Actually playing each of your characters and their different playstyles - be it Tamer, Crafter, PvPer, PvMer, Treasure Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Mage, Bard.

Training New Characters. Playing different Shards.

Customising your Castle however you want.

Collecting whatever it is you want to collect.

Doing all the quest styles you enjoy.

Playing High Sea's.

Doing Mini Champs to collect Imbue Regs. (I know you looted unfathomable quantities from a Dupers house that went IDOC - So did I, that takes a little off our plate).

Finding the time to actively go out and hunt/PK players.

Fighting and Winning Wars with objectives - VvV/Spawns/IDOCS/Harries.

Luna Bank Sitting.

Trading, running Vendors.

The game has enough content, to just let us enjoy playing, without "curses" or "annoying time-sinks".

I personally, do not manage to play as much of the game content as I would like to.

CovenantX

Ducan_IronWeaver said:

CovenantX said:

it's even worse when you get a clean jewelry piece because you know you get nothing out of the rarity of it...  Anyway, How is this still a thing?

Have you ever sold or bought high end jewlery/armor before? If you get a clean piece of jewlery that is not antique they sell for way more gold then it would if the same piece has antique..
A good ring/brace that doesn't have antique on it sell for so much more.. You absolutely do get more out of for its rarity.

 

 When it comes to Jewelry, you don't benefit from the "clean" part almost at all, because it doesn't matter if it's clean, prized, imbued, or antique Jewelry cannot be PoF'd... high-end jewels that are clean are incredibly rare, chances are you'd find 5-10 antiques with the same stats before you find a clean one with anything remotely close to being useful.

KHAN

CovenantX said:

Ducan_IronWeaver said:

CovenantX said:

it's even worse when you get a clean jewelry piece because you know you get nothing out of the rarity of it...  Anyway, How is this still a thing?

Have you ever sold or bought high end jewlery/armor before? If you get a clean piece of jewlery that is not antique they sell for way more gold then it would if the same piece has antique..
A good ring/brace that doesn't have antique on it sell for so much more.. You absolutely do get more out of for its rarity.

 

 When it comes to Jewelry, you don't benefit from the "clean" part almost at all, because it doesn't matter if it's clean, prized, imbued, or antique Jewelry cannot be PoF'd... high-end jewels that are clean are incredibly rare, chances are you'd find 5-10 antiques with the same stats before you find a clean one with anything remotely close to being useful.

I agree with the fact that "clean" jewels aren't powderable. (  @Bleak, @Kyronix ; clean and prized SHOULD be! )But, have found that clean jewelry tends to last a lot longer than "antique" ones. Just my observation.

CovenantX

KHAN said:

I agree with the fact that "clean" jewels aren't powderable. (  @ Bleak, @ Kyronix  clean and prized SHOULD be! )But, have found that clean jewelry tends to last a lot longer than "antique" ones. Just my observation.

  Sure clean lasts longer than antique, but no where near enough to where it really matters.

 

Clean doesn't last longer than prized, brittle, or imbued items... they're all literally the same when it comes to jewels.    if they're not going to fix the inconsistency with it, they might as well remove the possibility of receiving a clean jewel, so instead you'll get a different 'clean' item that has a decent chance to be useful.

  It depends on what you use it on tbh.  you can literally use an antique jewel forever on a bard or a tamer if you avoid taking hits, the durability loss 'over-time' (from antique) is only in effect while the Current durability =>0/255.   If you play a template that takes hits often, even clean items will wear out fairly quickly.

it's really only relevant with clean jewelry though, cause clean armor & weapons can of course be PoF'd.

Mervyn

Mervyn said:

Care to share some pics of your warn down brittle legendaries?

I'm disappointed nobody was able to show a worn down piece of brittle armour. They could've at least faked it by wearing it down to 0 and not repairing it.

xxxVideo

Mervyn said:

Mervyn said:

Care to share some pics of your warn down brittle legendaries?

I'm disappointed nobody was able to show a worn down piece of brittle armour. They could've at least faked it by wearing it down to 0 and not repairing it.

if u suggest to bring down durability on bittle items attach a poll. noone is going to do anything only cuz of u.

Mervyn

Why would i attach a poll?

Turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

I tell you what, why don't you do a poll to see if the players would like to play for free (no ads or anything) and get to choose 10 items from the store for free. I think i know what the result would be. People vote what is better for themselves personally and don't care about what is better for the game.

Cinderella

I do wear brittle items.
this is only 0 cause I copied my char to test shard just after an EM event where the slasher of veils area effect heavily damaged it. it was actually 42/252 and I used the repair station on it multiple times, trying to repair it...

Bilbo

TYVM @Cinderella and guess what because it is Brittle you can not PoF it back to Max Dur.

Mervyn

This is 232 durability, which will last forever.

im asking for pics of stuff that has been worn down?

like to less than /100

Reason nobody has supplied a pic is because nobody’s armour has ever gotten that low if they repaired it at 0.

Cookie

Mervyn said:

This is 232 durability, which will last forever.

im asking for pics of stuff that has been worn down?

like to less than /100

Reason nobody has supplied a pic is because nobody’s armour has ever gotten that low if they repaired it at 0.

It's a circular argument Mervyn.

No-one is going to allow that to happen, because it means an entire suit is destroyed.

In my case, I stop playing characters so much, to protect armour, or I change the entire armour style away from brittle or imbued. Others don't play certain bosses or playstyles because they cannot In this armour.

I can easily get an entire armour set to below 100/100 from 255/255, but why would I do that to myself? Why would I accept such a huge negative in my gameplay? Why, when I want to just play the game, would I get myself trapped in such a huge timesink, where my game hinges or relies on such a terrible armour style and having to replace it, or the entire suit constantly?

So the fact we cannot show you, means it is because players are not letting it happen, or adjusting against it, rather than it doesn't happen. I can confirm this is the case, because this is what I myself have to do.

It's a bit like me saying to you - show me a screenshot of any PK in Felucca in the entire history of UO, PKing my Crafter in Felucca. It's never happened. This isn't because it cannot happen, it is because I do not let it happen. And I only play in Felucca by the way.

xxxVideo

Mervyn said:

Why would i attach a poll?

Turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

I tell you what, why don't you do a poll to see if the players would like to play for free (no ads or anything) and get to choose 10 items from the store for free. I think i know what the result would be. People vote what is better for themselves personally and don't care about what is better for the game.

So you are the only one who knows whats better for game? Ur suggestion is stupid.