Bulk Order Deeds ... Who is working on it?
To the Team member in charge of this part of a future publish.
First off I commend you on taking up this venture... not just for the effort but for the future barking that will come your way when it is not to another players liking. It will happen lets not kid ourselves.
I will admit I have bugged Mesanna for quite sometime on this issue.
I would like to see the use of the books locked down for one. This would be like every other item we lock down that is a container with the menu of who can use.
My main request has been the making the books a single item count in hand. Due to the vast amount a crafter needs to have to work the skill bods its the only reasonable thing to do. I understand Mesanna's concerns of duping but honestly at this time I don't see it being that great a issue. Storage has driven many away from the bulk orders. The rewards have run their course and prices have dropped. No real demand for them now.
I can see the cut down of lag as a plus as I cut back on the vendors I use to hold them! My crafters bug would be a good work space ... goodness sorry was daydreaming of how nice it would be to get rid of the hastle of sorting by hunt and peck on vendors and making sure I didn't forget to "no sale" the books!This 4 to 1 lockdown was great when it was just smithing and tailoring...sorta. But now add in the 6 newer bods....... I understand not all players are crafters...so it is not that big a deal but to those of us who enjoy the bods... to count the books as 1 item no matter the amount they hold...is a super nice pipe dream id like to see filled...
If you need to see it from a different prospective your always welcome to visit.
Comments
hehe don't get me started on the vendors I have inslaved.... the shards are loaded with my bod collections. Yes I do all of them. I have found I am not alone in the frustration of keeping and working out of the books. Yesterday I was gifted 2 full books from a person who quit them from pure fit of anger. I tried to talk them out of it.... but I did see their point... These days the rewards sell for a pittance of the first days... and the more you have the lower the price of them drops.
I offer the insight of a crafters plight in the use of these books... (my lady crafters would like to stop stripping to their undies to work a full book!)
As for making the book count as 1 item, they have continually asked at meet & greets to do that. It wont happen cause it will promote more hoarding of BODs.
I believe it was their intention for the Artisan Festival to try to get some of the BODs out of the game. And I tell you that I turned in about 20K BODs the first year.
Recently I had to build a keep to store all my BODs & all the stuff I had to remove from my castle to be able to convert it. I even had to sell some of my BODs cause I had all these vendors that were storing them for me... Believe me I know how hard it is to move around full BOD books. I lost track of how many trips I made with my giant beetle. I don't think he was happy with me that day LOL
I would love it if they did ever make the BOD books use up just one item in the house... but I could tell you, that would just make the hoarding worse
While I can understand your position I have found it the complete opposite. I and many who do have bods work them are pretty much of the same mind. We don't horde for the sake of having tons of books full of them. Take your average large. 4, 5, and 6 parts needed just for 1... that is a lot of looking when you gather the bods. This is not as easy as you make it out.
WE work them 8 skills x 3 bods = 24 total but its only 3 in the one skill... and contrary to your thinking It takes a hell of a lot more collecting to get enough to fill one large. Oh, and by the way I work more then 1 large at a time. Most times I go to the NPC's and drop a few dozen. Not just cooking or smith, all the types.
This is not the "oh I got 3 bods lets fill them and turn in" If you are having trouble filling a few ASK many of us trade.
If the books were 1 item count I could use my bug and pouch to hold and work a lot more efficiently at filling. That is the only way to reduce the number of bods we get in. No one hordes bods just to have bods. I am glad you found a way to get rid of what you found intrusive I too have taken smalls to the tree drop. its nice but I will not be giving my hard worked fillers to get a piece I can buy off a vendor in a few weeks. Shield bods ok as none go into a large... I feel for your bugs hard work. But as for the rest of us....
Make the books 1 item count. For once do something that will help us a lot more then hot air in cold promises.
And I sold them cause I was tired of storing them on vendors. That and the people who bought them were just returning to game, who needed their own collection. Right now there is so much going on, that I just haven't rebuilt the massive collection that I sold. But I do still have BODs and plan on using them.
And to tell the truth the first year I turned in so many of the smalls, so I could make room for the other BODs.
What I was trying to get across is that they wont make the books worth just one slot. It would be awesome if they did, but I don't see it happening...
They are making it useable while locked down, so if its full you can use it... but it can also be used in our backpacks... so they are giving us one thing we asked for at the meet & greets.
Reason is:
I was handed by a player who threw up their hands at crafting due to the fact they didn't have the room in lockdowns nor the space to have vendors to keep their growing bulk order books.. (how I squeezed them in is a long story for later). She tried to get a bigger house, no luck for her shard.
This player shares her house with her hubby and their teenage kids who play on weekends. That's a lot of characters in one house... with different needs in space to work.
I understand their plight.
Yes making the books workable locked down is fantastic,
But this does not help the lock down issue.
This is not something to kid about.
If you think it will cause hoarding (sorry my reaction you cant see on line: PFFT!) Give me a Bloody Break... Oh I can see where to someone who sees the number of vendors or books I own may get that idea... I can assure you my vendors have sold a good deal of the rewards I have gotten from titles to trees, dyes and kegs …. but I also make sets for my homes on other shards. My problem is not just storage, My GM Skills Crafters need to have their books on them not sitting on a vendor that one account holds on to...
Its a rare crafter who can GM more them 5 working skills for bulk order production. ( some need 120 skill to do the bigger bods)
Now as for the idea some greedy evil duper will take the top bods and dupe the hell out of them.. Yes there is that possibility.. but I trust in your capture of said idiot. Idiot fits that idea to get away with... People don't remember things are traceable.. your team of GM's and we players who have the guts to turn in cheaters.
This 1 item count for bulk order books would go far to help for many reasons.
As the current 4 to 1 count is not cutting it.
Feel free to ask questions
@Bleak @Kyronix ; Help guys!!!!
Look I get the boss's fears of duping but give a girl a break!
You have no idea the headaches it is to sort and fill the tons of bods I been doing for filling the larges...
Not to mention hunting down the mats to do so.... (good thing I got a storage house with all I can use its just hauling it all to one spot to work.. no lock downs is a big issue) but back to the issue at hand.
I need help in this. I am not alone... another player tossed their collection on me as they were quitting! (do you get the hint that we need more "help")
Vendors cant hold much.... did you look at the number of bods to fill some of the Smith ones?
Odds of getting a set on the first try is … omg you got to be kidding Impossible!
On Atlantic alone I have over 100 vendors filled to the brim and don't ask do I do any.... I do tons and yet in a matter of days of killing off 200 to 300 bods in turned in larges I get them all back hoping for time to sort and breath!!!!!
Just give me a bit of hope...…
Do you really need a book full of half aprons? Why do players keep smith weapon BODs?
The devs (over multiple teams) brought the hoarding on themselves with these systems. For years you HAD to hoard smith and tailor bods to get what you wanted. It's not *as* bad now, but only by a matter of degree.
To be perfectly honest, the devs need to decide one way or the other regarding "hoarding." They can't begiving us a single graphic with "60 naming possibilities" and then not expect people to hoard them...or anything else similar. It's schizophrenic.
If hoarding is such an issue for the devs-they should let us show the NPC the bod, then fill in the blanks that come up with what we want it to be ( I envision a menu similar to the search menu on bod books) , and have the npc give us the pride to do that.
Price to high? walk away. Price acceptable? just drop the bod on him and he makes it happen.
Then we could turn loose of some of these bods, since upgrading would be straightforward for a change.
I bribe all leather, smith armor, Cooking, Alchemy up to max when I get them. I turn in Alchemy and Cooking larges when I get them. I have 1 book of each type.
I have seen a player with cloth BODs. He had a book full of just Full Aprons.
Its not the object that you feel people hoard bods..
Dot pointed it out quite clearly.
Take a simple 6 part plate iron smith (its just and example so don't go all wild).
First you need the Large bulk order, now this might take you a few try's to get even one large much less this one. But for giggles lets say you got one.
Now for the next hurdle... the 6 pieces.
Here is where you are gunna need the iron will to not toss up your hands and scream. (yes I have screamed to the walls when I get so frustrated on the time to get 6 seemingly simple smalls.
Boy do I have news for the guy doing this..... Nothing in UO is easy...even bods.
Look if someone wanted to dupe these silly squares for gold don't you think it would be done by now??? I got news for you... if its been done you missed the boat in the wash of bods. I turn in singles by the ton when I need to fill my vendor for smith tools. I will say be smart put on your smith tali it helps most times I get nice return bods. But there again the number of bods don't drop. it still takes filling the larges... which leads us back to the fact to sort and do the work I need the lockdowns and the books need to be useful and to be useful they need to be 1 item count.
This is not just for me.... hell. (sorry this word fits)
Think of all the players who's mains were crafters that have gotten to that point that it got too much and they up and quit...
Im sorry I see and hear it at least once a week on any of the shards I play.
Atlantic is not my only shard with this issue.... I have homes and crafters on a good deal of shards. So I do talk and have friends who are in just the same boat...
Pawain its nice you can cut down for your situation..
Dot yes the gift giving over the years has made a mixed bag of headaches in the area of the horde of items... while it hits into the lockdowns area it has little to do with Bulk orders.
Good gravy I did a novel...
To the Team member in charge of this... I'm not alone in needing some effort in this. I know you might not be a bod fanatic but for the crafters out in UO... this is a big deal.
at least squeak if you understand the problem...
I do agree the storage points is not great.. in fact I wouldn't use it period.
A rotating rewards for the levels would be a good idea.. every season change the list to a set of that time of year. 4 changes a year... how hard can that be? if you need ideas ASK US... the players are an untapped fountain of ideas... use it.
Now you know why I said over and over 1 item count for the books... Storage is killing the player base in doing them.
I was looking at the gift / bod set up for some of the new collections. Main one is Scribe.. but this can go for others as well... There is no EXE for the bods to do... how about using the different number of items instead. all 10 & 15 count be normal and 20s be the EXE. and I do point out the rotating season gift idea might help too.
1. Tailor: A COMPLETE REVAMP of point values, to line up with the other 7 skills.
a. Tailor BODs need to be 50% Exceptional, instead of the 33% that was apparently instituted when the BODs went live, but no one told the players about. Until 2008, all the different forums for UO were filled with "Tailor BODs are broken" posts, with Devs responding "they are working as intended", with the devs in question not realizing that the ONLY information the players had EVER been given on the normal/exceptional ratio was from a Design Document dating from when the system was internal alpha, that stated the BODs would work "exactly" like Smith BODs. Lacking any other info, people were left to assume that the ratio would be the same as well. It wasn't until late 2007 or early 2008 that extensive testing on Stratics showed the 33% (or more accurately, 1 in 3) split, and got it confirmed by Wilki - who was surprised to find out that NO ONE AT EA had ever told the players about the change between the DD and the Tailor BODs going live (after both he and I went through ALL the available publish notes we could find at the time from the Tailor BOD inception to that current time).
b. Tailor BODs are currently +100 points for exceptional, when ALL OTHER SKILLS that have exceptional BODs follow the Smith pattern of +200 points for exceptional.
c. Tailor BODs are +50 points for Spined, +100 for Horned, +150 for Barbed, when Metals start at +200 for Smith & Tailor, and Woods start at +300 for Oak.
d. The end result of b&c currently is that MOST points in Tailor are focused into the value of LARGE BODs, where the three categories are 300/400/500 points - all other skills have LBOD point values starting at 200. The end result is that small tailor BODs are almost worthless for banking points (or, for that matter, the Artisan Festival).
e. Furthermore, all Tailor BODs are currently CAPPED at 700 points (regardless of what the point value should be - 20 Ex Barbed 6-part should be 50+100+150+500 or 800 points), and rewards are currently capped at 700 points as well. It has led to a situation where far too many of the existing small BODs can be used for getting the TOP Tailor reward, when combined with a large.
The math: There are four 5-part & 6 part types; all 6 Barbed exceptional 6 part larges, the 2 Barbed Normal 20-count 6-part larges, the 2 Barbed exceptional 5-part larges, all 6 HORNED exceptional 6-part larges, and both SPINED Exceptional 20-count 6-part larges, give the Barbed Sewing kit. That's 18 DIFFERENT larges for the best Tailor reward (compared to ONE LBOD for EVERY OTHER SKILL), and 36+12+10+36+12 = 106 of the possible 528 armor BODs (leather through Barbed) BEFORE Bribing comes into play, or in excess of 20% of armor BODs. Even if you factor in the footwear (96) and cloth (29x6 = 174) BODs, that's still 106/798 possible tailor smalls, or better than 1 in 8. Compare this to Blacksmith's SIX smalls for a Valorite hammer, out of (150 weapons smalls (25x6), + 702 Combinable Armor BODs (13x6x9) + 594 Non-combinable armor/shield/helm smalls) = 1,446 SMITH SMALLS.
106/798 vs. 6/1446; One of these things is NOT like the other. And the ratios for the other skills' BODs aren't much better. And, not only do ALL Tailor smalls fit at least 1 large category, the footwear smalls fit THREE (2 different cloth outfit larges, plus the footwear large)
The Fixes indicated would be to me -
* Reconfigure point values for Exceptional Tailor bonuses to be in agreement with the other skills, and adjust the LBOD values accordingly (200 for 4-part, 300 for 5-part, 400 for 6-part), including removing the artificial point cap that no other BOD system has.
* Change the reward chart for existing Tailor rewards to the new point totals (so that the rewards would still be at the same equivalent points; as a 20 Ex Spined 6-part would be 700 points with the current color values retained, that would be the benchmark for the Barbed kit; raising the colored leather bonus values to start at higher numbers would increase this number by the same), and add some new rewards. Good choices for new rewards would be Cauldrons like the ones for wood and metal, to upgrade leather, more useful deco, something that allows recycling of Bone armor pieces, and a Tailor's Apron that works like the Master Chef's Apron as the new top reward.
*Add BOD capabilities (collecting, turn-in, and bribe) to Tailor Grandmasters and/or Cobblers.
2. Blacksmith BODs:
There needs to be only a few changes, as most of the issues were resolved back during the KR era (including fixing the typo that caused too few of some BODs to spawn, and too many of others)
a. The first change should be a means where the current bonuses for 110 and 120 real skill to BOD pulls ALSO reduces the chance for Weapon BODs. When announced over a decade ago, the bonuses promised 70% Color/30% iron at 110, and 90% color/10% iron at 120. BUT....
Because of the weapons BODs being iron only, these numbers were effectively 35% color/15% iron armor/50% weapons at 110, 45%/5%/50% at 120 (the numbers are actually slightly worse - there's only 24 armor smalls, combinable and non-, compared to 25 weapon smalls). This would require either altering the table for BODs so that there are separate subsections for color-possible and base-material-only, and having the color/iron selection force colored results to only use the valid side, OR having a color result that ends up with a "weapon" result trigger a reroll until a valid color-legal item was picked for the BOD.
Over the years, two different descriptions were giving for the BOD tables - one, common to pre-ML dev answers to BOD questions, indicated that there were such sub-sections already, but the weapon/armor split was higher than the color/iron choice. The other description is that smith & tailor had all the smalls in a common pool. This fix would, of course, be easier if the first description is true, than if the second is.
b. Another long-requested change would be to add a 4-part helmet LBOD and a 6-part Shield LBOD, reducing the number of non-combinables to ONE (the female plate).
3. Inscription: Only minor tweaks needed
a. Add more LBODs. Currently, there are several casting levels completely unrepresented (3rd & 6th level Mage). Without Ex and material bonuses, most scrolls without LBODs are not worth the effort, giving at best 1 bank point.
b. Add some Caster NPC types to the Scribe system. One of the issues I run into all the time trying to help new/returning crafters is that they claim they can't find BODs - because they logically think that MAGES (who sell most of the scribe supplies, some spellbooks, and scrolls up to circle 4) would be the NPC for the skill, not the Scribes in the libraries (that have pens and non-caster books, but NO scrolls or regs). Even if it was only the oddballs (Holy Mages of Luna, Umbra's Necromancer, and Moonglow's Illusionists), it would be an improvement over the limited pool of Scribe NPCs we have to use currently.
c. Add some rewards (possibly charged talismans) that give LMC that is for inscription-only, or at least reduce the scribing mana cost. Even at max mana regen, Int, and obscene amounts of +Mana, at most you can only scribe 4-5 8th Circle scrolls, before having to regen mana, and there's something about the scribing process that makes active med impossible to start for several seconds after the last scroll scribed. It currently takes a scribe longer to do 1 8th circle 20-count scroll small, than it takes a smith or tailor to fill all the smalls for one of their LBODs.
4. Alchemy: Works reasonably well
a. As with Inscription, 1 or 2 more larges would help.
b. Cheaper potion bottles would as well.
c. There's no need for the non-potion smalls, unless you want to increase their value to start at the LBOD levels AND have them bank like an LBOD (20% instead of 2%)
5. Cooking: Had a lot of teething pains, but works well now. The only thing I can think of would be having a box in some locations one could drop older broken BODs in (that won't bribe to Exceptional, that should if the BOD was a recent pull), to get a working replacement. And, the procedure to make Exceptional flour should be simplified (having to use a cooking tool to make it NEXT to a flour mill that can make normal-only flour is not intuitive at all, and I've seen people waste 100 or more wheat not knowing that you have to use that combo, and stick the wheat into the mill directly.
6. Tinkering: This system has a lot of issues, but is still better than Carpentry or Fletching.
a. All the smalls in the "Tools" LBOD can be exceptional, but the LBOD CANNOT BE. This should be an easy fix. (if it was supposed to be fixed already, none of my recent ones bribe up, just like the older ones)
b. There's not an LBOD for the non-gemmed jewelry (which are the only jewelry BODs currently that can be colored or exceptional). Adding this (and letting it go all the way to Valorite) would make a lot more sense.
c. The 9 different gemmed Jewelry LBODs are really only useful for banking points, being non-exceptional and iron-only. Even adding exceptional level BODs (and having the jewelry craftable that way, if not already) would also make the system more attractive.
d. There's an obscene number of non-combinables. Perhaps a few more LBODs could be added, since there are a number of items that can be crafted in colored metal, that have no larges.
e. Do we really need a "keg" small BOD that is for POTION KEGS, but not labeled as such?
7. Carpentry: Ouch....
a. There should logically be a Woodland Armor LBOD, but there isn't. So many of the colored smalls are wasted. Some other things could use LBODs as well.
b. Too many of the older house deco LBODs have the bribe issue mentioned in cooking, so a means of fixing them would be nice.
c. A lot of the house deco items, while they weigh only 1 stone when made, take 35, 40, 80 or more wood to make. Having to constantly reload wood (especially with their low crafting and exceptional chances) sucks. A fix for this would be to have a "Crafting Box" added to the BOD rewards, that ONLY will hold crafting materials (woods, leathers, ingots - the rest can be outside in the main pack), but has weight reduction like the Trade Order boxes, Bandage Belts, and Quivers. It doesn't have to be blessed, and it would be a great item to sell to other crafters.
d. The Wild Staff LBOD is badly broken. Only the base, non-magical, small BOD can be exceptional or colored wood. The cost of the gems to fill the normal wood, normal quality, ML recipe smalls is outrageous. And the large can be BROKEN in bribing, as if it goes up to Oak or exceptional, it can NEVER be filled (and that happens occasionally). And, this same issue exists with TWO Fletching LBODs.
e. As much a Cooking BOD issue as a Carpentry one. Can we get craftable Wooden Bowls, so we can more easily craft fruit bowls, instead of having to buy and scarf down food in wood bowls, and chug pepta's cure over and over?
8. Fletching
a. The Magical Shortbow and Elven Longbow LBODs have the same issue as the Wild Staff LBOD in Carpentry. Only the base, non-magical, small BOD can be exceptional or colored wood. The cost of the gems to fill the normal wood, normal quality, ML recipe smalls is outrageous. And the large can be BROKEN in bribing, as if it goes up to Oak or exceptional, it can NEVER be filled (and that happens occasionally).
I do bods on nearly every shard I play on. This means storage is at a cost. Let's do my math.
I own 54 accounts... and of these 46 are used.
I am not short for homes... (most are castles or keeps)
This means I do have a lot of lockdowns.... now hold on.. I didn't say I had them open for things!
And Yes I do play on those shards I have these homes on. The shards vary in use but I do have friends I do have some fun with... Back to the Bods...
Starting from Origin on down the list I have a good deal of books that are eating up space!
I am not joking when I said I turn in bods like mad... 21years in the game has made me a expert in storage.
The main thing I think people are missing in the point area is the fact to get a large bod filled it can take a few hundred pulls to get the fills. Now look that in those pulls you can and will get a few more larges and tons of smalls that do have use.
Lets take Smith for example...
I make the smalls work for me, shovals, picks, and other tools I do go through... my miners use up the tools and on Atlantic I sell them to those who don't have time to do it. I will not call it lazy as I too have at times bought when I didn't have time to fill bods.
I get the replacement bods.. with the hope that I will get a filler to a major bod.
One might say why didn't I toss the smalls on the ground that didn't have any value.. but they do and it would just clog up someone else's house.
For those of you who don't see the value its ok go ahead and toss, it might make some new guys day. Bleak or who ever is doing this work take the time to get into the workings of the bods.. yea yea its not macho.. but for the crafters who enjoy the workings or the vendor keepers who sell the outcome of the bods.
Psst… I sell the tools .. cheap and I can tell you I fill the bags of them every other few days. The new and returning players like the fact its 250 use tool and a bag of them will last a long time.
Did the light bulb go off?
I hope so..
I ask for the bod books to be what they should have been in the first place...
I imagine that if you did this... the population of players will keel over in amazement.