Pub 103 Krampus Feedback

Kyronix

Feedback for the Krampus Encounter

Playtest Questions
1. How do the new spawn restrictions with regard to the 25% distance limitation feel?  How often are ambushes spawning during a normal trade route with these in place?
2.  How many trade orders should be required before there is a chance to spawn Krampus?

Nikard

1. I havent gotten any ambushers in 5 trade quests so far.

2. WAY less.

The_Higgs_1

I ran several trade quests and I took the long way to yew from trinsic, and from Britain to yew. Not one ambush, seems broken to me.  I think its an issue with only one Krampus being allowed at one time.  If someone is progressing a ice spawn towards him then everyone else gets screwed.

Grace

Vesper to Trinsic had one ambush.
Vesper to Skara had none.
Vesper to Yew had one ambush which was a lot stronger than the first. 

Then I cancelled two orders, Jhelom and New Mag to avoid boats/moongates.
Thought, I hope I didn't mess things up by cancelling orders to go on in the progression.

Then had to stop for the day. 

I have done many trade orders in the past and only get five line orders. Are you players who aren't getting ambushed built up the trade line orders? Don't know if that matters or not.

Khyro

I believe people are just seeing the effects of the 25% no-spawn zone. It can really vary depending on which towns you are going between. Assuming distance is counted as the crow flies, you would see something like this:

Trinsic <> Skara



New Magincia <> Yew



The greater the distance between cities, the larger that 25% area becomes. 

Kyronix

This is something we will continue to evaluate based on the overall ambush rates.  Thanks for the feedback!

The_Higgs_1

When I ran them at first I didn't read the paper thing on Krampus you got in brit commons. Is it mandatory to read that in order to get the ambushes?  I ended up getting ambushed a lot after reading it.

Kyronix

The_Higgs_1 said:

When I ran them at first I didn't read the paper thing on Krampus you got in brit commons. Is it mandatory to read that in order to get the ambushes?  I ended up getting ambushed a lot after reading it.

It is not, just a bit of added context for the encounter.

Petra_Fyde

Someone went and let the RNG loose on it!  I have done quite a lot of trade quests - though it always seems to get interesting (ice fiends & white wyrms) just as I run out of time and have to quit for RL stuff.
However, on the same route I can sometimes get ambushed mutiple times and sometimes not at all.  I have walked all the way from Trinsic to Minoc without a single ambush.

Larisa

the 25% doesn't seem to effect much, I have gotten plenty of ambushes...only one run I did had one ambush, the rest had at least 4 or more. I did Brit to Jhelom, Brit to Vesper, Brit to Yew...always try to get the longs one lol.

2-3 of each mob, when you get 3 WW's and 3 Ice Fiends it gets a little rough..I never got the minions to spawn, I was on a trade run from Brit to Yew when Krampus spawned so I didn't make it in time but I think, at least for me, the spawn rate was fine, not too hard but not to easy and plenty of them.

Petra_Fyde

Larisa said:

 I was on a trade run from Brit to Yew when Krampus spawned so I didn't make it in time 

This, to me, is a problem I'd like to see a solution to - If you're in the middle of a trade run when it spawns, then you are excluded from the fight.  I suppose you could abandon the quest, but that has consequences. 

Khyro

Petra_Fyde said:

Larisa said:

 I was on a trade run from Brit to Yew when Krampus spawned so I didn't make it in time 

This, to me, is a problem I'd like to see a solution to - If you're in the middle of a trade run when it spawns, then you are excluded from the fight.  I suppose you could abandon the quest, but that has consequences. 

I had concerns about this also. The first time he spawned I was just returning a trade order so the Minister told me he was up and I was able to get there. The second time he spawned on my trade route, so I was already there (I also announced in General Chat where he was for others to come).

@Kyronix ; Would it be possible to add a notice to only those with an active trade order that alerts you that Krampus has spawned? This would allow you to cancel your order and go to a Minister to find his location.

If this is possible, I suggest only giving this message to those on an active trade order, because those would be the people doing the content (if everyone in the game got the message it would be distracting, or would cause people to just sit around waiting for the message so they can kill Krampus with minimal effort invested).

Kyronix

The assumption we were working off is that if you were in the middle of a trade mission and Krampus spawned, there would be ample enough time for you to deliver your trade order (well attempt at least) and find out where he is BEFORE he was killed.  Once you take your trade order, the rest of the trade order system doesn't have a reference to you in order to send a message.  Krampus spawns as a guardian with some minions that need to be killed, this was the mechanic in place to allow for that time without having to add additional tracking to the trader order system.  If Krampus' guardians are getting wiped out too quickly before others have a chance to join the next step is to prolong the guardian period.

The_Higgs_1

Can I ask why Krampus is limited to one at a time?  Why not let each player build up their own trade orders to have a chance at spawning him?  Those people can always ask for help when trying to kill him.  It takes awhile to get him to spawn anyway prolonging the encounter I don't think is the way to go.   Besides at one at a time places like atlantic are just gonna have people show up only when hes up instead of being involved in the content, basically griefing the people who put in the work.

Also I think setting the trade order count to somewhere between 30-50 orders would be good.

Khyro

Kyronix said:

The assumption we were working off is that if you were in the middle of a trade mission and Krampus spawned, there would be ample enough time for you to deliver your trade order (well attempt at least) and find out where he is BEFORE he was killed.  Once you take your trade order, the rest of the trade order system doesn't have a reference to you in order to send a message.  Krampus spawns as a guardian with some minions that need to be killed, this was the mechanic in place to allow for that time without having to add additional tracking to the trader order system.  If Krampus' guardians are getting wiped out too quickly before others have a chance to join the next step is to prolong the guardian period.

I think that will work out in most cases, especially if people are nice enough to announce it in General chat. Both kills I had on him yesterday took probably 10+ minutes from spawn to death. I think people just need to get used to the event and know that when minions are ambushing the trade routes Krampus is close. We'll keep testing as we can and see what we experience!

Larisa

The problem with that is..most people don't want to abandon their trade..so say Krampus spawns...I'll use the example from what happened yesterday. I was on a trade run from Brit to Yew....I was just East of Yew Cemetery when someone said in GC that he had spawned....now I have 2 choices from this point; abandon my order so that I can recall to a location close to where he is (He was just West of Trinsic that time)...OR (if no one said anything in GC) I could run the rest of the way to the Trade Minister, find out he spawned and I can't turn in my order until he's defeated, either abandon my order or try to run all the way to his location with the order still in tact...(Which, as you can see from the map) I couldn't have done.

So @Kyronix you can see in some instances there is NOT ample time to get to his location.



There's a VERY slim chance I would have made it from Yew ALL the way to almost Trinsic on foot before he was dead, and I knew about it BEFORE I got to the Trade Minister..if I had gone all the way there and THEN found out, I wouldn't have made it to him.

Kyronix

@The_Higgs_1
Currently only 1 Krampus can spawn because there isn't a realistic possibility of most players being able to handle these solo vs groups.  The intent is also to boost the number of overall trade orders that are being run - more money for the cities - the faster you do the trade missions, the faster Krampus spawns, the faster you can get his goodies.  

You bring up a good point about people limping in at the last minute to kill Krampus without doing anything to benefit the cities (via a trade order).  In order to combat that we can add a modifier to up your chances of phat lootz if you complete a trade order as opposed to if you are a limper.  I think that's a fair compromise to encourage participation.  

Right now the trade order count is somewhere between 20-25, once you reach 20 there's a very good, but not guaranteed chance he'll spawn.

@Khyro - thanks for the feedback.  Look forward to more testing.  We'll announce another public test event for the weekend to get additional feedback.  Spread the word to come test Krampus - once we get close to Thanksgiving the window for additional changes gets pretty slim!  Now is the time to make your feedback heard!  Thanks again!

The_Higgs_1

I like the idea of the modifier for those who participate, and thanks for listening on that part. 
 
The only other concern I have is since its based on just trade orders completed, why would anyone stop to kill the ambushers.  Just run from town to town to hit the magic number faster and leave all the spawned ambushers just running amuck.  May be a good idea to have the ambushers take the trade box until the ambushers are killed like it was last time there was an event like this.  Just some FYI to think about.  @Kyronix

Khyro

Kyronix said:

@ The_Higgs_1
You bring up a good point about people limping in at the last minute to kill Krampus without doing anything to benefit the cities (via a trade order).  In order to combat that we can add a modifier to up your chances of phat lootz if you complete a trade order as opposed to if you are a limper.  I think that's a fair compromise to encourage participation.

I like this idea! 

Kyronix said:

Right now the trade order count is somewhere between 20-25, once you reach 20 there's a very good, but not guaranteed chance he'll spawn.

Does anything cause the current count to go down? Me and @Violet did around 25 trade orders late last night and we were still getting Frost Spiders and Frost Slimes to spawn. We were chaining them pretty fast too. I assume as the ambusher difficulty goes up (Spiders/Slimes >Trolls/Snakes >  Elementals > Fiends/Wyrms > Minions), it is indicating he is closer to spawn? Or do those change based on some other variable?

Violet

Kyronix said:

@ The_Higgs_1
Currently only 1 Krampus can spawn because there isn't a realistic possibility of most players being able to handle these solo vs groups.  The intent is also to boost the number of overall trade orders that are being run - more money for the cities - the faster you do the trade missions, the faster Krampus spawns, the faster you can get his goodies.  

Remember human nature leads us towards the path of least resistance.  On most servers the coffers of Magincia are overflowing.  This is also the town that trade orders can be completed the quickest.  Since Krampus is spawned by number of trade orders done, it will just lead to a majority of the people leaving from Magincia and those trade order funds already going to overflowing coffers.   

Maybe Krampus should kidnap the New Magincia trade minister~ (that would also really mess up the stealth trade order bots that run out of New Mag)

Kyronix

@Khyro Nothing should be resetting it until Krampus is killed.  The spawn progression is spider/ooze -> elementals -> serpent/troll -> wyrms/fiends -> minions/krampus

If you did that many trade orders and it was still spawning spiders/oozes then there is an issue we'll have to track down.  

@The_Higgs_1 you get a bonus to the amount of gold that is deposited to the city based on the number of trade orders you complete ambusher you kill, so there is an added benefit to killing them.  If someone opts to run away, they will eventually despawn. 

@Violet I will contend that human nature does drive to the path of least resistance, however there are some pretty strong motivators that drive people to play for cities they have a connection too.  I doubt the citizens of New Magincia would be very happy if their trade minister went missing!

Dot_Warner

The Krampus Minion Hat is undyeable, the game doesn't think it's cloth...

I know, I know, why would people want to dye it...

Khyro

Kyronix said:

@ Khyro Nothing should be resetting it until Krampus is killed.  The spawn progression is spider/ooze -> elementals -> serpent/troll -> wyrms/fiends -> minions/krampus

If you did that many trade orders and it was still spawning spiders/oozes then there is an issue we'll have to track down.  

Most of them were completed with Moongates (basically we were trying to do as many as possible to get a pseudo counter on how many it took). Do moongate trade order runs invalidate that count towards spawning Krampus?

We also noticed this in the patch notes:

"• Krampus cannot spawn if a Moongate has been used."

However, both myself and @Violet had Krampus appear on our trade runs after using a moongate (two separate spawns). If it matters mine was from Magincia to Britain moongate, Violet's was Magincia to Vesper Moongate.

Kyronix

That would make sense.  You do not get Krampusin credit for using the moongate shortcut, but he can actually spawn if you've used one.  The notes will be updated to be more clear.  

Khyro

Kyronix said:

That would make sense.  You do not get Krampusin credit for using the moongate shortcut, but he can actually spawn if you've used one.  The notes will be updated to be
more clear.  

Thank you for clarifying! We will try to test it again and make sure to run all the trade orders  

Violet

Kyronix said:

That would make sense.  You do not get Krampusin credit for using the moongate shortcut, but he can actually spawn if you've used one.  The notes will be updated to be more clear.  

Citizens of Vesper rejoice!

*sends a pigeon with a note to call off the abduction of the New Magincia Trade Minister*

Petra_Fyde

@Violet hehe now I understand why you had done 22 orders and I'd only managed 7 in 3 hours. I have been walking the entire way, or sailing to islands.  I think though I'll pick up the pace a bit and run instead of walking 

Petra_Fyde

I think I've become invisible?  I took an order Skara - Moonglow, sailing West. Just after I crossed the main east/west server line I had a slight mishap and died. I recrossed the line, returned to Skara, disembarked and self-rezed using Sacrifice. Lost the order, obviously, and started a fresh one.
Since then I've run Skara to Brit, Brit to Minoc, Minoc to Trinsic and Trinsic to Brit without a single attack on any of those 4 

I did notice (EC) that even after I self rezzed the healer symbols were still showing on my overhead map.

P.S. the last 2 trips have given me SoTs for detect hidden and spirit speak - are the trade ministers trying to tell me something?

CovenantX

@Kyronix ; Consider having the Whips drop as Tinkering Recipes so we can craft them.

Out of all the rewards, the whips are really the only 'combat usable' ones, so it's more important to have the ability to replace those items as they will eventually break.

While the other recipe/crafted items won't be using in situations where they'd wear down some of which cannot wear down, the boots for example.

Kyronix

We have a long term release plan for the whips, for right now that does not include them being available as craftables. 

CovenantX

ah gooood goooooooooood