Pets Unbonding & Skill Loss.

Ben

I returned to UO in December after 6 years away. A few weeks ago, my White Wyrm of 100 months, and 6 years in stable while I no longer played, unbonded the day after an EM event on Formosa involving Lord Oaks. Only now did I bother to ask a question in google search about it and here I am, reading about this. I remember feeding a few times in the early days. Never since. Because of lag, I do remember spamming the same command to follow before it went wild again and I had to retame. It was horror to see the skill loss. For the record my tamer is 120 vet/lore/tame/music/peace, so do not think this is skill issue. Sad.

JenniferMarie

— Here’s a kicker:

At ShadowGuard with a fully trained Phoenix and the stupid Lich comes up. The Phoenix gets Disco’d and unbonds.

ok ... I didn’t even know this was a thing that could happen, so at first I was livid.

The friend who was at Roof with me drags the Phoenix off and I retame.

Now, if skill loss was the only thing I had to contend with? No problem.

But guess what? The Phoenix lost HP and other stats. A fully trained Phoenix with no training points left on him. Tell me how THAT is fair in any way, shape, or form?

Urge

Margrette said:

@ Poo and @ MissE, did your pets that went wild see any change in their stats and resists?   Have you been able to retrain their skills?

I haven't had a pet go wild in ages. I have never seen one lose resists or stats either. I do know they lose skills when traded. I had a Cu that i traded between multiple tamers that ended up with 2 wrestle.

Hermione

JenniferMarie said:

— Here’s a kicker:

At ShadowGuard with a fully trained Phoenix and the stupid Lich comes up. The Phoenix gets Disco’d and unbonds.

ok ... I didn’t even know this was a thing that could happen, so at first I was livid.

It’s not for pet getting discorded that is an issue, what happens is the player gets discorded and every command to the pet makes the pet go wild. If you get discorded, just don’t give any commands.

Gidge

I see the lich at the roof and the primeval one both discord me, but never the pet. I just run away, and don't dare command it at that time.

I know line of sight is a major issue, if the pet can't see you, or its target, a simple all kill will make it fuss and gripe and ignore your command. Even around a lake edge, can anger the pet. I think this is how people lose pets at the Belfry. You have very few spots that you can see the dragon to attack it.... if you can't see the monsters (line of sight wise) your command will anger it. also if your pet can't see you.

I have also stated this before, that feeding your pets the things that don't fill us up as characters quick are not good to feed your pet. Grapes, lettuce, anything that you have to eat a lot of. Even apples were not doing the job for hunger for my pet, I stick with peaches. I don't know about meats, as I not used a meat eater since really noticing this.

I do agree that a message would be a great addition, as I do play with sound, but I have learned the pets reactions as well as their sounds are key to them not going wild.

I would also like to see a pet buff bar so that we can see what effects our pet is under. The pets loyalty could be a debuff that appears and then changes color as it gets angrier.

Now what is odd is that a pet "a loaded giant beetle or loaded packhorse/llama" can sit around and it takes all day/night for them to go through the stages to wild, but a few commands at the wrong time can make a pet go wild if they can't see you or perform the action due to line of sight.

popps

JenniferMarie said:

— Here’s a kicker:

At ShadowGuard with a fully trained Phoenix and the stupid Lich comes up. The Phoenix gets Disco’d and unbonds.

ok ... I didn’t even know this was a thing that could happen, so at first I was livid.

The friend who was at Roof with me drags the Phoenix off and I retame.

Now, if skill loss was the only thing I had to contend with? No problem.

But guess what? The Phoenix lost HP and other stats. A fully trained Phoenix with no training points left on him. Tell me how THAT is fair in any way, shape, or form?

Imagine such a thing happening to a TRITON..... in that case, it would simply go POOF......

That's what happens when pets get spawned off a Statue and not Tamed...

Imagine a player who has gone through tens upon tens of Tritons in order to finally get a good one, takes the time to train up that Triton (and the expensive Powerscrolls), and then sees it go "POOF" because it goes wild for some weird happenings like that?

How upset would such a player be ?

I think that this should be something that should really be looked at....

Hermione

Gidge said:

I have also stated this before, that feeding your pets the things that don't fill us up as characters quick are not good to feed your pet. Grapes, lettuce, anything that you have to eat a lot of. Even apples were not doing the job for hunger for my pet, I stick with peaches. I don't know about meats, as I not used a meat eater since really noticing this.

Superstition. No evidence of this.


Interestingly the bug department independently reached the same conclusion that a message should be displayed:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/3101/skeletal-cat-dies-no-ghost#latest

JenniferMarie

— It’s probably me who was disco’d when the Phoenix went wild - that part I don’t really care about. I was pissed that a bonded, fully trained 5 slot from a 3 slot pet could even go wild and that upon retaming it had lost STATS.

If it had just been skill loss? Fine. A few hours at the Shadow Elementals in the Yomotsu Mines and a few hours in Shame with the Blood Elementals would train skills back up to full.

But to lose STATS?! The bird’s HP went from 675 to 622. Strength dropped. INT dropped!

And I can’t fix that. I seriously considered just killing the damn thing before it rebonded because I was so furious. All that training time. All of the scrolls used. And a Phoenix that was decently badass is now basically junk. And there’s nothing anyone can or will do about it.

So yes: the “fix” to the release-and-retame exploit is also a complete screw-over to those of us who have fallen victim or could fall victim to a pet who goes wild during a fight.

And for the record: my Phoenix was “Wonderfully Happy” not 20 seconds before he went wild in the middle of the Roof boss fight and I keep food in my pack at all times to feed my pets when fighting. One piece of ham, sausage, or cooked bird will keep a meat eating pet at Wonderfully Happy. My veggies & fruits eating pets, I always feed them 5 apples or 5 grapes or 5 peaches at a time to keep them Wonderfully Happy.

Oh, and it can’t be a matter of tamer skill level? Because my tamer is a straight TamerMage: full 120 actual skill in animal lore, taming, vet, magery, eval, and med.

@Kyronix @Bleak @Mesanna @Mesanna1

Pawain

Urge said:

Margrette said:

@ Poo and @ MissE, did your pets that went wild see any change in their stats and resists?   Have you been able to retrain their skills?

I haven't had a pet go wild in ages. I have never seen one lose resists or stats either. I do know they lose skills when traded. I had a Cu that i traded between multiple tamers that ended up with 2 wrestle.

No pet loses stats when traded.  Only when released.  Or the .1 when they die.

Urge

Pawain said:

Urge said:

Margrette said:

@ Poo and @ MissE, did your pets that went wild see any change in their stats and resists?   Have you been able to retrain their skills?

I haven't had a pet go wild in ages. I have never seen one lose resists or stats either. I do know they lose skills when traded. I had a Cu that i traded between multiple tamers that ended up with 2 wrestle.

No pet loses stats when traded.  Only when released.  Or the .1 when they die.

Your post has me confused now. Are you talking about stats as in Stam, Dex and Int or skills like Wrestle?

I have 2 pets I have shuffled between accounts and characters that lost a ton of wrestle. The Cu i mentioned was down to 2 wrestle when I finally shuffled it to a character I wanted to train it with. Is it not normal to lose wrestle when being traded?

None of those have ever lost any of the stats being traded or dying.

Pawain

Pets lose no skills or stats when traded. 

They lose skills when released and retamed.

I can trade a pet with you on Atl.  It will just lose the bond.

Tamers move pets around a lot.  Had to move many around to free spots for Tritons. 

Players sell pets at the Luna stables on Atl.  No stat or skill loss.

Urge

Pawain said:

Pets lose no skills or stats when traded. 

They lose skills when released and retamed.

I can trade a pet with you on Atl.  It will just lose the bond.

Tamers move pets around a lot.  Had to move many around to free spots for Tritons. 

Players sell pets at the Luna stables on Atl.  No stat or skill loss.

Ok. The two I shuffled were originally prepatch 4 slots. I know I had to release/retame to get back to 3 slots when that still worked. The one i haven't touched in a while but the Cu ended with 2 wrestle after shuffling.

Maybe they became bugged. I'll do more testing.

Thanks for the heads up! I assumed they all lost skill when trading so i haven't attempted it.

Pawain

Tamers move pets around a lot.  That would be a bad thing if they lost stats or skills.

Bilbo

Urge said:

Pawain said:

Pets lose no skills or stats when traded. 

They lose skills when released and retamed.

I can trade a pet with you on Atl.  It will just lose the bond.

Tamers move pets around a lot.  Had to move many around to free spots for Tritons. 

Players sell pets at the Luna stables on Atl.  No stat or skill loss.

Ok. The two I shuffled were originally prepatch 4 slots. I know I had to release/retame to get back to 3 slots when that still worked. The one i haven't touched in a while but the Cu ended with 2 wrestle after shuffling.

Maybe they became bugged. I'll do more testing.

Thanks for the heads up! I assumed they all lost skill when trading so i haven't attempted it.

Gidge

Hermione said:

Gidge said:

I have also stated this before, that feeding your pets the things that don't fill us up as characters quick are not good to feed your pet. Grapes, lettuce, anything that you have to eat a lot of. Even apples were not doing the job for hunger for my pet, I stick with peaches. I don't know about meats, as I not used a meat eater since really noticing this.

Superstition. No evidence of this.

All the evidence I need is in the sound of, and action of, and the looking at the gui of... I am still just extremely happy even thought you clearly just fed me....you need to feed me more. I get that some people don't feed their pets and that giving them a few order raises their happiness back up, I have even seen that in action...but it is not a risk to take when something as simple as dropping food on them is available. I do not believe or adhere to superstition. This is fact.

and as I stated on the post above, I will again here:

I do agree that a message would be a great addition, as I do play with sound, but I have learned the pets reactions as well as their sounds are key to them not going wild.

I would also like to see a pet buff bar so that we can see what effects our pet is under. The pets loyalty could be a debuff that appears and then changes color as it gets angrier.

popps

To my opinion, the MOST disturbing issue is that of a pet going "poof" because it goes wild, whatever the reasons....

Powerscrolls do not come cheap, imagine a Tamer making an exceptional effort to earn the large amounts of gold to purchase 120 powerscrolls for his/her pet, take the time to train it all up and then, because of some weird thing, see that pet go wild and then go "poof", vanish into nothingness taking away with it, those applies powerscrolls, the time spent to train it up and all that....

OF COURSE that such a player would then become royally upset ?

Shouldn't, as an advisable and wishable measure, the Developers think about something to make this NEVER be possible to happen ? @Kyronix , @Bleak , @Mesanna ?

That the pet goes wild, it might be acceptable ONLY, if then the Tamer is given the chance to retame it easily....

Furthermore, a pet that goes wild and is killed BEFORE its Master can retame it, should stay around as a Ghost for a GOOD while, wandering about, and the Master should be given the ability to resurrect it while being a Ghost EVEN if it is Wild, and then, once resurrected, be then able to tame it again...

Definitively, I think, no pet under no circumstance, should just go "poof" and vanish into nothingness.... not if we want players to stay playing Ultima online and not want to quit playing over things like this....

Sliss

Feeding your pet frequently is not a solution. There are multiple reported cased of pets losing happiness within minutes of feeding. Listening or watching fro messages is not a solution either as both will get lost if your pet is in the middle of a swarm of mobs pounding on it.
Going wild mechanic is obsolete in a game where scrolls alone can cost a couple hundred million gold.

JenniferMarie

— Honestly, the thing that makes the most sense is that once a pet is “bonded” - it should never have a possibility of going “wild” unless released by the tamer.

Bilbo

JenniferMarie said:

— Honestly, the thing that makes the most sense is that once a pet is “bonded” - it should never have a possibility of going “wild” unless released by the tamer.

SanE

This still appears to be an ongoing issue. Wife and I returned after nearly 10 yrs not playing. She invested in a new cu full spec very pricey only to have it go randomly wild during Navery and this result in death before she nor I had realized this took place and it was slain while wild. 

After seeing this thread and the last quote listed I cannot help but begrudge the fact this has been a known issue without developer address that could now affect our intent to have returned and stick with this game.

i’d debated requesting GM assist but know all too well that would be of naught, but after reviewing this thread in its entirety, I cannot help but be outraged that since 2018 there have been continued requests for action in this regard with not an inkling of response.  One can only hope in what seems a hopeless situation and I have to admit I am truly disappointed in this.

Arron

SanE said:

This still appears to be an ongoing issue. Wife and I returned after nearly 10 yrs not playing. She invested in a new cu full spec very pricey only to have it go randomly wild during Navery and this result in death before she nor I had realized this took place and it was slain while wild. 

After seeing this thread and the last quote listed I cannot help but begrudge the fact this has been a known issue without developer address that could now affect our intent to have returned and stick with this game.

i’d debated requesting GM assist but know all too well that would be of naught, but after reviewing this thread in its entirety, I cannot help but be outraged that since 2018 there have been continued requests for action in this regard with not an inkling of response.  One can only hope in what seems a hopeless situation and I have to admit I am truly disappointed in this.

What shard do you all play on? Can I help you acquire another Cu? I am  on Great Lakes but play for a couple of hours in the morning, as I work nights.

SanE

We play Atlantic; much appreciated no less. Sadly I’d offered to help her catch another when told she bought this one fully trained and thus Very disheartened. She has yet to login again

Kirthag

Is this unbonding happening only to scrolled/trained pets?

I cringe taking my pre-patch WW out for hunting - haven't scrolled or trained her because I like her the way she is. The thought of losing her creates a knot in my stomach so she is simply fed and paraded for a bit before going back into her stall. Is sad, I want to take her hunting, but just the thought.... *shudder*

(I know she's just pixels, but I really luv my WW!)

I've seen people go absolutely ape when their scrolled/trained pets suddenly turn wild for no reason other than spite. I would probably react the same way...

@Kyronix @Bleak

Bilbo

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times.

WornOutYourTool

Bilbo said:

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @ Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times.

Damn Bilbo, that was imo the most real and concise post I've witnessed in this forum.  Stop making so much sense! Hahaha

Petra_Fyde

JenniferMarie said:

— Here’s a kicker:

At ShadowGuard with a fully trained Phoenix and the stupid Lich comes up. The Phoenix gets Disco’d and unbonds.

ok ... I didn’t even know this was a thing that could happen, so at first I was livid.

The friend who was at Roof with me drags the Phoenix off and I retame.

Now, if skill loss was the only thing I had to contend with? No problem.

But guess what? The Phoenix lost HP and other stats. A fully trained Phoenix with no training points left on him. Tell me how THAT is fair in any way, shape, or form?

I'm at a loss to know how this happened. None of the shadowguard roof bosses have bard abilities, none of those could have disco'ed you or the pet.

SanE

Bug or intended function; a pet status bar as described earlier, a ghost available to bonded owner for a brief period, or ultimately a fix in this direction could/would cover the base for those now facing fears of this moving forward. 

Im definitely new to how things of this nature are now handled. Pleased to see the community active and helpful enough to further the potential thereof, and above all grateful this game finally has an official forum site. 
Disappointed no less with/after all this to then see this thread/issue still a pending doom for any/all tamers and ongoing for as long as it has without any significant indication of resolve. 

Im hopeful for the future of UO but can not deny this type of problem can result in further loss than simply a ‘pet’ ingame. Rage quitting is nothing new to UO but certainly a greater pain for the whole than it once had been. While I plan to proceed forward cautiously, I’ve abstained from even bringing this up with my wife who to my knowledge has still not logged back in, instead returning her gaming efforts to a game we both left to return to this one. I cannot imagine she is that unique a case in this ever competitive mmo realm. 

This is what is of the utmost importance and why I posted at all. Hopeful for as hopeless as this may seem, that some action will be taken before I too find myself abandoning further, and maybe even to present promise for those unlike myself, that haven’t spoken up. 

I will definitely play my tamer with greater caution moving forward. Here’s hoping to see some improvement that might inspire hope for others even in my wife’s despair as there isn’t anything that can change what’s happened already only what could happen into the future. 

Thanks to those of a sympathetic nature my hope will remain even feeling the hopelessness encountered here. 

MissE

Bilbo said:

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @ Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times.

Hmm as the OP, I told you what happened and frankly resent the implication that I was not being HONEST.  In who's opinion?  Yours?

Miasma is hardly a known pet to cause unbonding.  Other than 'all kill' that was the ONLY command given, and as I said 2 mins or less before the pet was wonderfully happy.  I assume when it got mortally wounded (the special miasma does) it didn't like it but it shouldn't go wild, especially as you cannot HEAL the pet while in that state, although it was healed immediately after.  It just went wild, nothing else.

I guess unless it happens to YOU, you think everyone else is just making stuff up. 

Pawain

Why do pets need to go Wild?  Outdated game mechanic since we can put over 100M in scrolls on them.

I think it is time to remove that feature.  They go below rather happy, they just stand still and shake their head until fed.

Bilbo

MissE said:

Bilbo said:

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @ Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times.

Hmm as the OP, I told you what happened and frankly resent the implication that I was not being HONEST.  In who's opinion?  Yours?

Miasma is hardly a known pet to cause unbonding.  Other than 'all kill' that was the ONLY command given, and as I said 2 mins or less before the pet was wonderfully happy.  I assume when it got mortally wounded (the special miasma does) it didn't like it but it shouldn't go wild, especially as you cannot HEAL the pet while in that state, although it was healed immediately after.  It just went wild, nothing else.

I guess unless it happens to YOU, you think everyone else is just making stuff up. 

So your pet is mortally wounded and you still tell it all kill, good for you.