UO Leadership - Request Tweak to Siege Perilous Rule Set

Freelsy

As more lands are added, and expansions are released, the "old" rule set for Siege is becoming unrealistic with today's gaming environment. There are so many new and awesome items we'd like to utilize, but they're very hard (think time sink) to obtain... Items like the Hawkwind's robe, Crimson Cinture, Tangle, Lt. Sash and so on. Because these items are so hard to find, and the full loot potential upon death, nobody uses them (except for guild hunts within instanced zones.) Furthermore, because they're so hard to find, people will more often than not lock them down in their homes and not sell them. On Siege, we do not have hundreds of people farming Peerless bosses every day. When a special item drops, it's a big deal.

I'd like to formally request that the current UO leadership team examine the outdated Siege model and potentially look into allowing us to bless clothing items with stats once again. I'm not asking for a change of drop rate to these exclusive items. Keep them hard to find. Moreover, I understand that Siege is the "hard" shard because it's a free-for-all, no trammel shard. That's great, and that's the reason we all play it. The thrill of the hunt is exciting. However, the game has changed since Siege was implemented, however, the rule set has not. It has not kept up with the massive itemization post AOS, and most recently with the release of Eoden and Shadowguard. A GM crafted leather suit no longer cuts it.

At a minimum, if @Kyronix could just respond with a no, or "we'll take that into consideration" would be amazing and greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Tanager

*seconds this motion*

Lady_Storm

Sorry   I say NO.

Reason is Siege was built to make the game HARD. And no matter what any other says that its strickly for pvp... your wrong. 

Originally it was to challenge the masses who claimed UO was too easy.   I was there when it was announced and then launched. I still have one of the original guilds on shard..

Try as you might to raise the shard to main stream shards advantages I will still refuse your attempts to change a working world... Adapt or go to the main shards. 

Siege Perilous is as close to a classic shard as the Dev can do.... leave it alone.

Freelsy

I appreciate your comment, and you're correct about Siege being created to add a challenging alternative. But your overall premise is way off base. You started in 1999 when Siege was created. That's awesome, and I'm quite jealous as I did not join until late 2002. However, those experiences mean nothing in today's environment. I've been a part of the change from pre-AOS to modern Siege. I've dealt with the changes, the bugs, the ups and the downs. Have you? As you so eloquently stated... I Have adapted and I have prospered. When was the last time you played Siege? I couldn't find a single posting on the Siege forums going back 10 years with your name in it. To me, you have no credibility to refuse or combat any changes to the shard. That's just you talking out your ass of a nostalgic memory from 18 years ago... which I might add is a primary reason why Siege has not advanced and has become stale and stagnant. The general UO player base wants to keep Siege a "classic" shard when in fact it's just an all Feluccia shard w/ an altered rule set. There's nothing classic about it anymore. 

Blessed clothing items would help veterans and newcomers alike. There's no advantage given to PvPers or PvMers. It's a change that literally benefits every single player. In fact, it would encourage farming of the old and new content to obtain these scarce items, and encourage our dedicated crafters to pump out those bless deeds for everyone. They'd make a fortune!

Also, I'm not sure where you were going with the "not strictly for PvP..you're wrong" statement because nowhere in my post did I say, or elude to, anything about PvP centered mentality.

Finally, you say it's as close to a classic shard as the devs can do and to leave it alone... then we should revert the blessed clothing issue, because removing blessings from clothing with magical properties didn't take effect until 2007.

I always keep an open mind though. If blessed clothing would break the game, give me hard facts and change my mind. Don't give me the "this is how it's always been done" mentality. Positive change is good and shouldn't be avoided!

Max_Blackoak

just add a second Siege bless so we can have two items blessed. That would go a long way...

Bilbo

DEVs met with SP players and the players picked the rules, you want it changed then get all SP players together with a DEV and talk.

Garth_Grey

Lady_Storm said:

Sorry   I say NO.

Reason is Siege was built to make the game HARD. And no matter what any other says that its strickly for pvp... your wrong. 

Originally it was to challenge the masses who claimed UO was too easy.   I was there when it was announced and then launched. I still have one of the original guilds on shard..

Try as you might to raise the shard to main stream shards advantages I will still refuse your attempts to change a working world... Adapt or go to the main shards. 

Siege Perilous is as close to a classic shard as the Dev can do.... leave it alone.

And who exactly are YOU on Siege, and why do you think you have the right to scream an all caps NO as if your single voice dictates everything Siege ? I've been on Siege since 09 and have no clue at all who any of your 50+accts characters primarily on production shards,  are on Siege. Sorry to get personal but to say your reply has ******* me off is putting it mildly.

Bilbo

And who are you, oh wait we all know who you are.

Garth_Grey

Bilbo said:

And who are you, oh wait we all know who you are.

I"m not sure why you're commenting on Siege matters as well.

McDougle

I'm Bid McDougle I am a siege Nub not even good enough to be a siege noob who rarely ventures two screens from my house and i say leave Siege the hell alone 

Bilbo

You have nill, nadda, zilch who anybody is anywhere and as long as I am a paying customer I can voice me opinion on anything I want.

Rorschach

Please keep the terms of service in mind when posting on the Ultima Online forums. Thank you.

Garth_Grey

Rorschach said:

Please keep the terms of service in mind when posting on the Ultima Online forums. Thank you.

I"ve re-read my replies and I"m going to assume you're not referring to me, as I've said nothing that appears to be against any TOS. I do see where someone ****'d over my poor choice of a silly word that's not considered a swear word in any culture that I"m aware of, I have, however seen the 4 letter S word proudly displayed in several posts here lately that appeared to have glided over any editing by forum officials.

Bilbo

Garth_Grey said:

Rorschach said:

Please keep the terms of service in mind when posting on the Ultima Online forums. Thank you.

I"ve re-read my replies and I"m going to assume you're not referring to me, as I've said nothing that appears to be against any TOS. I do see where someone ****'d over my poor choice of a silly word that's not considered a swear word in any culture that I"m aware of, I have, however seen the 4 letter S word proudly displayed in several posts here lately that appeared to have glided over any editing by forum officials.

And who exactly are YOU on Siege, and why do you think you have the right to scream an all caps NO as if your single voice dictates everything Siege ? total disrespect, enough said

Garth_Grey

That wasn't disrespect, I can guarantee you that 95% of the shard doesn't know who Lady Storms characters are because she more than likely never logs in there since the day she placed several houses I'm sure. My comments were made as an every day citizen of the shard for the past 9 years, who has a vested interest in that shard and wants to see it succeed. If that's against the TOS, then so be it. I'm fairly certain that if you have a character on Siege, he/she is not named Bilbo, so again, who are you on Siege, because my characters name should be obvious.

Rorschach

If this thread continues to be about whether any paying player has the right to express an opinion on any aspect of this game that a paying player may or may not participate in, I will be glad to end it here. 

Rorschach

Keep the discussion on topic please.

Cookie

Ok, on topic.

I believe the opening poster has a valid question. I also get Lady Storms hardcore response.

I am new on Siege, and can't really give a balanced view yet.

Siege to me, has survived almost intact, and is currently the most balanced system in UO. It would be a shame to mess with this on one hand, on the other, it hasn't changed at all after almost 20 odd years. It could potentially attract a lot more players, if some of its rules softened up a bit, I guess that is where some of the current Siege posters are coming from. It could have the most balanced and fun systems, as well as a ruleset that isn't so hardcore it puts many players off.

I'll sit on the fence on this one to be fair. I'm to much of a newbie on the shard to have a properly informed opinion.

Lady_Storm

Um...........

Let me correct you on a few facts.

1. I am a Beta player and opened every shard UO has made.

The only difference's between SP and prodo shards was..

1. The inability to sell anything to the NPC's.

2. Not being able to buy training.

Remember this SP started in the Feluccian era.  Pvp Pks and the Guilds ran the same as the prodo shards. 

This also meant we got the same equipment the prodo shard players got in starting a character.

Newbie clothing, knife, scissors, crafting tools that applied to the character build we did in opening. Oh and regs that came with the magery. 

A few years after the blessing bit changed a thief in moonglow tried to steal my characters scissors and dagger.. she found them blessed and had a cow,  She called a GM on me and claimed I had a illegal set on me... the GM took my dagger and scissors and replaced them with npc bought.

A few months back I had the opportunity to talk to Mesanna at a M&G... the question of SP and changes players wanted came up and I told her of this GMs actions.  She told me the GM should not have touched my equipment. as if he would have looked on the starting date of my play on siege he would have found that character of mine was created the 2nd day of the shard and my equipment was legal.

I have a chest of Newbie clothes on SP I hardly wear them on any character as I do on normal production shards. 

Asking for changes to blessed or other wise  no  leave things as they are... players have interfered enough in the past 20 years for my taste... the Shard is not taffy for you to pull apart to suit you. You may go the way of the dodo for all I know in time where I will be there long after your gone.

Cetric

The only thing that would make siege fun and challenging is disabling stealth

Freelsy

Lady_Storm said:

Um...........

Let me correct you on a few facts.

1. I am a Beta player and opened every shard UO has made.

The only difference's between SP and prodo shards was..

1. The inability to sell anything to the NPC's.

2. Not being able to buy training.

Remember this SP started in the Feluccian era.  Pvp Pks and the Guilds ran the same as the prodo shards. 

This also meant we got the same equipment the prodo shard players got in starting a character.

Newbie clothing, knife, scissors, crafting tools that applied to the character build we did in opening. Oh and regs that came with the magery. 

A few years after the blessing bit changed a thief in moonglow tried to steal my characters scissors and dagger.. she found them blessed and had a cow,  She called a GM on me and claimed I had a illegal set on me... the GM took my dagger and scissors and replaced them with npc bought.

A few months back I had the opportunity to talk to Mesanna at a M&G... the question of SP and changes players wanted came up and I told her of this GMs actions.  She told me the GM should not have touched my equipment. as if he would have looked on the starting date of my play on siege he would have found that character of mine was created the 2nd day of the shard and my equipment was legal.

I have a chest of Newbie clothes on SP I hardly wear them on any character as I do on normal production shards. 

Asking for changes to blessed or other wise  no  leave things as they are... players have interfered enough in the past 20 years for my taste... the Shard is not taffy for you to pull apart to suit you. You may go the way of the dodo for all I know in time where I will be there long after your gone.

I'm not keen on the point you're trying to make, but thanks for the insight. Hopefully the Dev's will take Siege Specific issues into consideration in the near-future and maybe add an additional blessed item, blessed clothes...  who knows. Time will tell.

Adios.

AmberWitch

Cetric said:

The only thing that would make siege fun and challenging is disabling stealth

*grabs head and screams* NOOooooooooOOOO!!!!!!

*falls into a blathering puddle of messy human bits and pieces*

Max_Blackoak

disabling stealth completely would be a bit much but I guess it would make it less overpowered by simply adding passive detect from player characters.

Uvtha

Better idea:  Increase rare drop rates across the board by 100%.  

I've been advocating this for years.  It would make the items more valuable because you could actually use them, as such would make incentivise visiting the spawns that drop the items, helping people gear, making more action around, and boosting the economy, all while sticking to the shard's principals.   

More drops less blessings.  

MissE

Cetric said:

The only thing that would make siege fun and challenging is disabling stealth

Nope you want to find stealthers put tracking on your char, be red and toss pots, cast quake or thunderstorm.  There is always a method if you want to use it. 

To stealth you need min 170 points on your template (100 hide, min 70 stealth) and ALL THOSE POINTS get you is the ability to stealth.  NOTHING ELSE.  It is not overpowered it is doing what all those points devoted to it allow you to do.  You forgo other skills to be able to do that ONE thing.

If they disable stealth then Siege would lose probably 50% of it's player base, I know my 3 accounts would go in an instant.  Siege would be totally unplayable for me without it.

CovenantX

MissE said:

Cetric said:

The only thing that would make siege fun and challenging is disabling stealth

Nope you want to find stealthers put tracking on your char, be red and toss pots, cast quake or thunderstorm.  There is always a method if you want to use it. 

  You're talking about a production shard pvper, We're used to having all the methods at our disposal without investing skill points in useless things like Tracking.  (oddly enough, i have tracking instead of something for more offense/defense on one of my main prodo shards characters)

 I disagree that disabling stealth would make siege anymore/less fun than it is (i did lol a bit though =D).

The main problem with siege, is as Items become more powerful, siege becomes less popular.

(I don't think items can get anymore powerful than they are, really)  magic property caps are the only thing maintaining any balance. 

Other restrictions specific to siege, that may deter people from even trying it:

1) limited to 1 character slot per account.

2) No recall or equivalent spells -   Gate Travel Only.

3) the Rot Skill-gain system.  (more reliable gains, but very slow progress)

4) limited to 1 blessed item.  (no insurance)

I actually wonder, how much of an increase in activity did Siege get when it was opened up for secondary house placement?

Bilbo

Do you people understand what you are asking, you are basically asking that an entire play style be banned/nerfed from SP.  So which play style is next, warrior, magic user, tamer, crafter.

Kyronix

Freelsy said:

As more lands are added, and expansions are released, the "old" rule set for Siege is becoming unrealistic with today's gaming environment. There are so many new and awesome items we'd like to utilize, but they're very hard (think time sink) to obtain... Items like the Hawkwind's robe, Crimson Cinture, Tangle, Lt. Sash and so on. Because these items are so hard to find, and the full loot potential upon death, nobody uses them (except for guild hunts within instanced zones.) Furthermore, because they're so hard to find, people will more often than not lock them down in their homes and not sell them. On Siege, we do not have hundreds of people farming Peerless bosses every day. When a special item drops, it's a big deal.

I'd like to formally request that the current UO leadership team examine the outdated Siege model and potentially look into allowing us to bless clothing items with stats once again. I'm not asking for a change of drop rate to these exclusive items. Keep them hard to find. Moreover, I understand that Siege is the "hard" shard because it's a free-for-all, no trammel shard. That's great, and that's the reason we all play it. The thrill of the hunt is exciting. However, the game has changed since Siege was implemented, however, the rule set has not. It has not kept up with the massive itemization post AOS, and most recently with the release of Eoden and Shadowguard. A GM crafted leather suit no longer cuts it.

At a minimum, if @ Kyronix could just respond with a no, or "we'll take that into consideration" would be amazing and greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

As we have seen when considering changes to Siege in the past, and as evidenced by the response to this thread there are strong feelings on both sides of any change to the core of the Siege ruleset.  This makes it challenging to garner any consensus, which is something we would really need to see before moving forward with any actual changes.  We do encourage continued discussion from the community, and especially appreciate everyone's thoughtful contributions!

Uvtha

Kyronix said:

As we have seen when considering changes to Siege in the past, and as evidenced by the response to this thread there are strong feelings on both sides of any change to the core of the Siege ruleset.  This makes it challenging to garner any consensus, which is something we would really need to see before moving forward with any actual changes.  We do encourage continued discussion from the community, and especially appreciate everyone's thoughtful contributions!

Why don't you all toss some feasible ideas out at us about what might be possible change?

That way an informed consensus might be doable.  I think it would be easier for people to come to terms with a devs ideas rather than an idea a player came up with, with it's potential biases.  

Uvtha

CovenantX said:

MissE said:

Cetric said:

The only thing that would make siege fun and challenging is disabling stealth

Nope you want to find stealthers put tracking on your char, be red and toss pots, cast quake or thunderstorm.  There is always a method if you want to use it. 

  You're talking about a production shard pvper, We're used to having all the methods at our disposal without investing skill points in useless things like Tracking.  (oddly enough, i have tracking instead of something for more offense/defense on one of my main prodo shards characters)

 I disagree that disabling stealth would make siege anymore/less fun than it is (i did lol a bit though =D).

The main problem with siege, is as Items become more powerful, siege becomes less popular.

(I don't think items can get anymore powerful than they are, really)  magic property caps are the only thing maintaining any balance. 

Other restrictions specific to siege, that may deter people from even trying it:

1) limited to 1 character slot per account.

2) No recall or equivalent spells -   Gate Travel Only.

3) the Rot Skill-gain system.  (more reliable gains, but very slow progress)

4) limited to 1 blessed item.  (no insurance)

I actually wonder, how much of an increase in activity did Siege get when it was opened up for secondary house placement?

I've said it before, but really I think there are only two major factors that keep people off of siege: 1) Open pvp, and 2) item loss.  The rest are more QOL concerns.

That said, I think siege should be developed (assuming it is being developed at all) to be more itself, rather than more like prodo shards.  As such making changes to improve life and the experience for players who actually like siege in the first place should be preferable to trying to get people who don't like it to play there.  

One solution to the item loss issue is simply dramatically increasing item drop rates.  It's a win/win scenario.  People have something more meaningful to pvp over, people gear more easily, pvmers have more valuable stuff to sell.  It makes life easier, improves the flow of character progression/preparation and economics, and it's a very easy change to make.  

Sadly they have said in the past that they weren't going to consider a unique drop rate for siege, which made no sense to me, considering it's the game's only unique ruleset shard.  It needs unique rules to work right.  

Freelsy

Kyronix said:

Freelsy said:

As more lands are added, and expansions are released, the "old" rule set for Siege is becoming unrealistic with today's gaming environment. There are so many new and awesome items we'd like to utilize, but they're very hard (think time sink) to obtain... Items like the Hawkwind's robe, Crimson Cinture, Tangle, Lt. Sash and so on. Because these items are so hard to find, and the full loot potential upon death, nobody uses them (except for guild hunts within instanced zones.) Furthermore, because they're so hard to find, people will more often than not lock them down in their homes and not sell them. On Siege, we do not have hundreds of people farming Peerless bosses every day. When a special item drops, it's a big deal.

I'd like to formally request that the current UO leadership team examine the outdated Siege model and potentially look into allowing us to bless clothing items with stats once again. I'm not asking for a change of drop rate to these exclusive items. Keep them hard to find. Moreover, I understand that Siege is the "hard" shard because it's a free-for-all, no trammel shard. That's great, and that's the reason we all play it. The thrill of the hunt is exciting. However, the game has changed since Siege was implemented, however, the rule set has not. It has not kept up with the massive itemization post AOS, and most recently with the release of Eoden and Shadowguard. A GM crafted leather suit no longer cuts it.

At a minimum, if @ Kyronix could just respond with a no, or "we'll take that into consideration" would be amazing and greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

As we have seen when considering changes to Siege in the past, and as evidenced by the response to this thread there are strong feelings on both sides of any change to the core of the Siege ruleset.  This makes it challenging to garner any consensus, which is something we would really need to see before moving forward with any actual changes.  We do encourage continued discussion from the community, and especially appreciate everyone's thoughtful contributions!

Wow. Thanks for the response. This is exactly why I centered my proposal around an idea that all players can get behind. Previously, the hotly debated topic was bringing back VvV items... which would give a slight edge and morebenefit those that enjoy that playstyle. I'm looking to boost the entire shard, get more players to the shard, and boost my own enjoyment from the game. I love Siege, it's my home, but damn does it suck losing a rare item/suit to a random crash/death.