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Why a Rogue needs to use the Invisibility spell/potion rather then a Smoke Bomb ?

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  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    Not sure if I hate Cookie right now or myself.. good post.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,052
    KroDuK said:
    Not sure if I hate Cookie right now or myself.. good post.
    ;)
    Absence makes the heart...
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    edited November 11
    I mean, I totally disagree on the solution.. but it make sense there is something wrong here we can agree on that.

    Personally the smoke bomb, I see them as a design for scout mostly PvP.. and to be honest a HUGE QoL for hiding.. missing those hiding cuz u don't cheat and do not count every single tile every time u needed to hide.. was SOOOO frustrating.

    To me, I loved me some smoke bomb for emergencies reason.. PvE and PvP.. cuz yeah, if u'd knew how frustrating hiding was before SE.. I couldn't stand playing thief.


    To me the heresy is still stuff like invis potion and all those OP gears..
    You can have like 1,1k skill on your thief? back then to use ninja.. u had to make choice on your thief, personally I drop magery to use invis scrolls.. not long after I realised i could legit drop stealing for poison and have way more fun.. Wich explain why I had to train back stealing when I came back in 2024 (stealing on soulstone)


    But let's agree.. it's kinda dumb to still limit the hiding skill since invisible potion exist (combine with magery) The delay on smoke bomb itself shouldn't be mess with but hiding on the other end... If u can lift the hiding limitation and keep the smoke bomb, do it.

    If he cries about the tiles distance.. remind him of this post.
    At the end, everything is streamline but nothing is changing.. wich is sad.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    There used to not be a timer on smoke bombs.

    Animal form stealth pvpers survived a lot more than they should so that's where the timer came in. This is one of those things where tram play got caught in the crossfire. 

    I agree with the timer. Between mage-potion-turkey feathers-invis items-smoke bombs there's numerous ways to workaround and become a better player having to master the timing of it all.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    edited November 11
    Let's agree on something then for smoke bomb.. this delay is 100% needed in PvP, but other activities, like Cookie mentions.. the hiding delay could be lifted considering everything like Urge mentions.. except if u steal from players.

    I'd still prefer my idea; the hard fun mode.. so do that but in same time cancel stuff like invis pot and harcap the suit total intensity points from/in felucca.  :*
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    Idk i'm torn.

    I could make bank selling smoke bombs if the timer was removed. 

    Playing a thief should be a mastered art. It shouldn't be easy or accessible to everyone just because of a few backpack items. 

    I don't really count the invis pots because they have a slight delay where smoke bombs are instant. 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,295
    They will never unnerf ninja
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,345
    edited November 11
    Urge said:
    Idk i'm torn.

    I could make bank selling smoke bombs if the timer was removed. 

    Playing a thief should be a mastered art. It shouldn't be easy or accessible to everyone just because of a few backpack items. 

    I don't really count the invis pots because they have a slight delay where smoke bombs are instant. 
    Well, if you mean stealing from players when you say thief, for that is necessary to be in the Thieves Guild...

    It could be made so that there was no timer for smoke bombs "unless" the Rogue was to join the Thieves Guild and thus no longer be just a Rogue but become a rounded full Thief... in that case, the smoke bomb timer would apply...

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,295
    popps said:
    Urge said:
    Idk i'm torn.

    I could make bank selling smoke bombs if the timer was removed. 

    Playing a thief should be a mastered art. It shouldn't be easy or accessible to everyone just because of a few backpack items. 

    I don't really count the invis pots because they have a slight delay where smoke bombs are instant. 
    Well, if you mean stealing from players when you say thief, for that is necessary to be in the Thieves Guild...

    It could be made so that there was no timer for smoke bombs "unless" the Rogue was to join the Thieves Guild and thus no longer be just a Rogue but become a rounded full Thief... in that case, the smoke bomb timer would apply...

    Smoke bombs are for ninja not rogue 
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    Not even close to what i meant.

    Basically that was a polite way of saying learn to play. 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,052
    edited November 11
    Urge said:
    Not even close to what i meant.

    Basically that was a polite way of saying learn to play. 
    I think hidden ambushers with detect hide, go beyond the realms of learn to play.

    It is RNG. So it would be good to have a counter.

    And playing in heavy mobs for stealing - easy to say, ok, I'll only ever go to the quiet places, but that defeats the point.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    I get that but playing a thief should take time patience and skill. I am 1000% against making changes to make this a new farming temp just because it's now profitable. 

    Now if you were to suggest an adjustment to mob detect...have at that. 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,052
    Urge said:
    I get that but playing a thief should take time patience and skill. I am 1000% against making changes to make this a new farming temp just because it's now profitable. 

    Now if you were to suggest an adjustment to mob detect...have at that. 
    I do not have time or patience... :)
    I want to have fun, the rogue concept has really developed over the last few years, and has become a lot of fun. I'd pretty much call it a finished product in terms of template.
    I'm all for opening up templates, especially the more unique ones, and the result has been very popular.

    Now for the Mages. :)
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,295
    I think a lot of people started playing rogues last event in the safety of the city and have no clue on how to play now that easy mode is off
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    edited November 11
    popps said:
    It could be made so that there was no timer for smoke bombs "unless" the Rogue was to join the Thieves Guild and thus no longer be just a Rogue but become a rounded full Thief... in that case, the smoke bomb timer would apply...
    It would be a brilliant idea to fix your actual wtf.. but after that I would find my thief bland.. like I find my tamer bland. If they do that for hiding tho (not smoke bomb).. it could streamline the wtf.

    Solution wise I align with Urge, but I'd make it even more skilled personally.. by deleting stuff for felucca.. way less automation required.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    Grimbeard said:
    I think a lot of people started playing rogues last event in the safety of the city and have no clue on how to play now that easy mode is off

    lol!

    Some people have never stalked an entire champ spawn at a chance for a powerscroll and it shows. 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,295
    Urge said:
    Grimbeard said:
    I think a lot of people started playing rogues last event in the safety of the city and have no clue on how to play now that easy mode is off

    lol!

    Some people have never stalked an entire champ spawn at a chance for a powerscroll and it shows. 
    I have eaten so many ps right before death...
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    edited November 11
    Grimbeard said:
    I have eaten so many ps right before death...
    He would indeed, start eating those PS as soon the first poisoned shuriken would land on him; waving the white flag.. In fact this the main reason if today he loves fishing soo much.. *raising the white flag*  :*
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,295
    KroDuK said:
    Grimbeard said:
    I have eaten so many ps right before death...
    He would indeed, start eating those PS as soon the first poisoned shuriken would land on him; waving the white flag.. In fact this the main reason if today he loves fishing soo much.. *raising the white flag*  :*
    FL killed me a lot 
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    A game like Albion did something clever.. some weakling would start trashing their inventory, the fix was; some valuable stuff within the last 120seconds before getting killed would be restored.
    Risk vs Reward while limiting the anti play.

    Being that kind of bad manner would get you a perma kill on sight sentences from my part. On all your characters.. but we both know it's all crap, made up McDougle story.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 700
    edited November 12
    Shadow Strike. Have 70+ Fencing, and carry a high HCI dagger. Steal, equip the dagger then immediately stab something with Shadow Strike, and you're hidden again. Just make sure you're not in a Form so you can activate Shadow Strike after the steal attempt.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,375
    edited November 12
    Good call, personally back then u needed tactic to perform special attack and me 2024 thief was using a shitty mage weapon:
                                                            
    But yeah, no special attack with mage weapon

    Edit: this weapon tho would do that job.. I had this when I drop stealing for poison:
                                                            
    Would also help for my 4/6 ninja.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,683
    edited November 12
    Popps clearly has ninja on this toon based on his other thread complaining about hitting a animal form macro.... since you are a ninja you can use other ninja spells like mirror image to deflect attacks.

    I'm literally doing this on my thief that has zero remove trap. I stealth around in animal form (white tiger for extra DCI & speed) then when I find a sparkle I change into human form while picking the lock then stealth back a few tiles while casting mirror image. Then I cast telekinesis 3 times (2/6 casting) AND cast invis usually without getting hit. If I do end up getting hit (mirror images usually absorb all the hits and stop the attack) and my spell is interrupted, that's when I pop a smoke bomb. I'd say 90% of the time I don't need to move or run away but on the off chances I get revealed I can either cast invis again because almost nothing is aggro'ed on me.

    The only time you should actually be unhidden (99% of the time) is when attempting to steal an item from the chest...in that instance you  pre-cast mirror images to absorb hits... or you would need to use an invis potion...or turkey feathers...or invis spell (you can easily get like +25 magery with a simple equip spellbook & shield)...or use a shadow strike weapon as someone else mentioned... the possibilities are pretty large. 

    TL:DR - There isn't anything wrong with hiding/ninja/thief... some people just need to learn to play the mechanics.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,394
    keven2002 said:
    There isn't anything wrong with hiding/ninja/thief... some people just need to learn to play the mechanics.
    keven2002 said:
    There isn't anything wrong with hiding/ninja/thief... some people just need to learn to play the mechanics.
    keven2002 said:
    There isn't anything wrong with hiding/ninja/thief... some people just need to learn to play the mechanics.

    This can't be said enough.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 700
    KroDuK said:
    Good call, personally back then u needed tactic to perform special attack and me 2024 thief was using a shitty mage weapon:
                                                            
    But yeah, no special attack with mage weapon

    Edit: this weapon tho would do that job.. I had this when I drop stealing for poison:
                                                            
    Would also help for my 4/6 ninja.

    Pretty sure there are some old invasion weps around too that can have up to 30% HCI on them. A Dagger or Assassin Spike with that would be perfect if you can't fit HCI anywhere on suit.
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