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Shadowguard changes

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  • Dot_WarnerDot_Warner Posts: 234
    Kyronix said:
    drcossack said:
    Larisa said:
    As for the belfry...pets have always been pushed off the platform, as far as players being pushed off now? While I hope that's not intended, because it is a pain in the rear lol, it's really not that bad, killing the drakes is fairly easy and that's how the room was intended to work in the first place, so technically being able to get your flying pets up there without having to kill drakes is a bug, I know it's just using game mechanics and sure it makes it a lot easier to NOT have to kill the drakes but now I feel with these changes it's working the way it's always supposed to...since Shadowguard is Kyronix's baby maybe he can chime in :)



    But that's where the problem lies.  Player and pet are now pushed off with no further chance to do anything to the Greater Dragon - I just tested it myself, to see what would happen.  Right now, flying pets getting sent up top is the ONLY way to clear the Belfry.  In the time it takes for a player to get another wing, the GD will have healed a fair amount of damage.  And they'll have to KEEP doing it until time runs out, because right now, there's no way to finish the Greater in 30 minutes by using the "intended" method with the wings.

    @ Kyronix is this what's supposed to happen?  I'll be able to record the belfry later, both with the wings & without, if you so desire.
    The core loop with the belfry is drakes -> feather -> dragon, repeat.  You should be able to do upwards of 1000 damage to the dragon before the dragon flaps you off the platform.  Anyone who is experience something other than an approximate 1000 points of damage before getting pushed off, or roughly 1/10th of the dragons health, needs to send a report to uo@ broadsword.com with a minimum of the following information,
    # of characters in the party
    templates of the characters in the party
    makeup of the players/pets that are doing damage to the dragon before the dragon pushes you off
    approximate amount of damage being done to the dragon per hit from all sources

    Alternatively, if you can screen cap and send it to the same email address that would be helpful too but also include information listed above that may not be apparent from the video.

    Do not post this information on the forums, make sure you email it.  Thanks for the reports and patience while we try to address any issues.
    If you're going to make us ring the bells multiple times, then I would suggest that the # of drakes that spawn be in relation to the number of players on the ground (not the number of mobiles). Nobody wants to ring that bell when they've been pushed off knowing they'll have to face 2 x mobiles in party = # of drakes by themselves. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,993
    Mervyn said:
    Pawain said:
    Reywind said:
    So this thread about changes to shadowguard is quickly getting derailed into a thread about auto stabling pets when you log out?

    I would like to bring the discussion back to the original topic, which is the new changes to Shadowguard. These changes basically only affect tamers, as sampires can still solo the entire encounter. Was the whole point of these changes to make Shadowguard no longer viable for anyone besides sampires, like with doom? Are these changes to deter AFK scripting and multiboxing? Why can't that be enforced through GMs and the reporting system, rather than permanently ruining an encounter for everyone?

    Nope the Devs did not know about it until @ mervyn brought it up.  His one man crusade to eliminate Tram to make the game Fel only.  Step 1.  Ruin pets.

    So they spent their time on the bug fix publish fixing something that the majority of players did not consider a bug.
    This is pretty slanderous. 


    I think you’ll find my blue is a tamer, and every bug report I post is simply to better the game for everyone.

    As for how much influence I have over the development team, I’m one of the oldest players, and have a clean sheet, no illigal programs or abuse given to other players. Also, people actually come to me with their issues as they’re aware I’m able to post factually and logically to explain the problems. So they’re not all “my” bug fixes. And I can tell you I’ve had my fair share of arguments with developers. But they are mostly reasonable people who listen to reasonable logic. 

    So you deny nothing I said. I knew you would agree with my assessment.  Since it is true.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • SlissSliss Posts: 283
    Mervyn said:
    But you wrote “Exactly. Especially considering that every template other than a tamer will be able to pick up exactly where they left off.”
    A tamer logs in dead because whatever was aggressing the pet aggresses the tamer after a crash. So you did agree with me whether you like it or not.
    No, I was agreeing with the statement that having pets dumped into the stables on a disconnect is a silly idea. Me agreeing with "the pet should continue to do whatever it is doing until at least your char logs out" is your fantasy. It was not in the statement I replied to, and I never said anything of a kind.
  • drcossackdrcossack Posts: 145
    Kyronix said:
    The core loop with the belfry is drakes -> feather -> dragon, repeat.  You should be able to do upwards of 1000 damage to the dragon before the dragon flaps you off the platform.  Anyone who is experience something other than an approximate 1000 points of damage before getting pushed off, or roughly 1/10th of the dragons health, needs to send a report to uo@ broadsword.com with a minimum of the following information,
    # of characters in the party
    templates of the characters in the party
    makeup of the players/pets that are doing damage to the dragon before the dragon pushes you off
    approximate amount of damage being done to the dragon per hit from all sources

    Alternatively, if you can screen cap and send it to the same email address that would be helpful too but also include information listed above that may not be apparent from the video.

    Do not post this information on the forums, make sure you email it.  Thanks for the reports and patience while we try to address any issues.
    Yeah, that's about how much damage I did even today when I killed the drakes.  But that's not the problem.  The Greater Dragon in the Belfry has, off the top of my head, 20/43/43 HP/Stam/Mana regeneration.  In the time it takes for me to kill the drakes and get back up to the belfry, a good chunk of the damage I dealt will have regenerated.  That was with a single character - had I gone in with 3 tamers and tried the Drake > Wing > get pushed off > repeat loop, I would've had utter chaos on my hands from the sheer # of Drakes I'd have to fight every time.  Even with one character, I'm not entirely convinced I'd be able to manage to clear the Belfry in 30 minutes by using the Feather.

    When I did the belfry last night on Lake Superior, I used 3 tamers and had each one send their pets up top (Two had White Wyrms, and the third had Platinum Drake from the Ice Dungeon.)  That's the same method I've used in the past, because they make quick work of the encounter.  In the past, when the Greater was pushing the White Wyrms off, it had a great deal of difficulty doing so (although it eventually managed), due to their constant movement and continually attacking the Greater.

    Right now, the only reliable/sane way to do the Belfry is by taking advantage of the hops and sending a flying pet up top to attack.  The Dragon shouldn't be able to push players off while they're "paralyzed" and unable to move in response to the push, whether or not the pets are attacking.  That's the issue I have with the Belfry as it is right now.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 1,186Dev
    drcossack said:
    Kyronix said:
    The core loop with the belfry is drakes -> feather -> dragon, repeat.  You should be able to do upwards of 1000 damage to the dragon before the dragon flaps you off the platform.  Anyone who is experience something other than an approximate 1000 points of damage before getting pushed off, or roughly 1/10th of the dragons health, needs to send a report to uo@ broadsword.com with a minimum of the following information,
    # of characters in the party
    templates of the characters in the party
    makeup of the players/pets that are doing damage to the dragon before the dragon pushes you off
    approximate amount of damage being done to the dragon per hit from all sources

    Alternatively, if you can screen cap and send it to the same email address that would be helpful too but also include information listed above that may not be apparent from the video.

    Do not post this information on the forums, make sure you email it.  Thanks for the reports and patience while we try to address any issues.
    Yeah, that's about how much damage I did even today when I killed the drakes.  But that's not the problem.  The Greater Dragon in the Belfry has, off the top of my head, 20/43/43 HP/Stam/Mana regeneration.  In the time it takes for me to kill the drakes and get back up to the belfry, a good chunk of the damage I dealt will have regenerated.  That was with a single character - had I gone in with 3 tamers and tried the Drake > Wing > get pushed off > repeat loop, I would've had utter chaos on my hands from the sheer # of Drakes I'd have to fight every time.  Even with one character, I'm not entirely convinced I'd be able to manage to clear the Belfry in 30 minutes by using the Feather.

    When I did the belfry last night on Lake Superior, I used 3 tamers and had each one send their pets up top (Two had White Wyrms, and the third had Platinum Drake from the Ice Dungeon.)  That's the same method I've used in the past, because they make quick work of the encounter.  In the past, when the Greater was pushing the White Wyrms off, it had a great deal of difficulty doing so (although it eventually managed), due to their constant movement and continually attacking the Greater.

    Right now, the only reliable/sane way to do the Belfry is by taking advantage of the hops and sending a flying pet up top to attack.  The Dragon shouldn't be able to push players off while they're "paralyzed" and unable to move in response to the push, whether or not the pets are attacking.  That's the issue I have with the Belfry as it is right now.
    Something doesn’t add up with this scenario.  There are 2 drakes spawned per player in the encounter.  Off the top of my head the drakes have somewhere around 250hp and have their wrestling buffed based on the number of players in the encounter, and with one, it isn’t very much.  Drake resists aren’t anything great, with noted weaknesses in at least 2.  With 20 hp regen the dragon gets 2 hp per sec (regen is technically ten sec regen) so about 8.3 minutes to regen the full 1000 damage dealt before the push fires.  So I guess I’m wondering what the contributing factor is that it is taking 4+ minutes to kill 2 drakes?  It definitely shouldn’t, and if it is we will need to investigate further. 


  • drcossackdrcossack Posts: 145
    edited June 2018
    Kyronix said:
    drcossack said:
    Kyronix said:
    The core loop with the belfry is drakes -> feather -> dragon, repeat.  You should be able to do upwards of 1000 damage to the dragon before the dragon flaps you off the platform.  Anyone who is experience something other than an approximate 1000 points of damage before getting pushed off, or roughly 1/10th of the dragons health, needs to send a report to uo@ broadsword.com with a minimum of the following information,
    # of characters in the party
    templates of the characters in the party
    makeup of the players/pets that are doing damage to the dragon before the dragon pushes you off
    approximate amount of damage being done to the dragon per hit from all sources

    Alternatively, if you can screen cap and send it to the same email address that would be helpful too but also include information listed above that may not be apparent from the video.

    Do not post this information on the forums, make sure you email it.  Thanks for the reports and patience while we try to address any issues.
    Yeah, that's about how much damage I did even today when I killed the drakes.  But that's not the problem.  The Greater Dragon in the Belfry has, off the top of my head, 20/43/43 HP/Stam/Mana regeneration.  In the time it takes for me to kill the drakes and get back up to the belfry, a good chunk of the damage I dealt will have regenerated.  That was with a single character - had I gone in with 3 tamers and tried the Drake > Wing > get pushed off > repeat loop, I would've had utter chaos on my hands from the sheer # of Drakes I'd have to fight every time.  Even with one character, I'm not entirely convinced I'd be able to manage to clear the Belfry in 30 minutes by using the Feather.

    When I did the belfry last night on Lake Superior, I used 3 tamers and had each one send their pets up top (Two had White Wyrms, and the third had Platinum Drake from the Ice Dungeon.)  That's the same method I've used in the past, because they make quick work of the encounter.  In the past, when the Greater was pushing the White Wyrms off, it had a great deal of difficulty doing so (although it eventually managed), due to their constant movement and continually attacking the Greater.

    Right now, the only reliable/sane way to do the Belfry is by taking advantage of the hops and sending a flying pet up top to attack.  The Dragon shouldn't be able to push players off while they're "paralyzed" and unable to move in response to the push, whether or not the pets are attacking.  That's the issue I have with the Belfry as it is right now.
    Something doesn’t add up with this scenario.  There are 2 drakes spawned per player in the encounter.  Off the top of my head the drakes have somewhere around 250hp and have their wrestling buffed based on the number of players in the encounter, and with one, it isn’t very much.  Drake resists aren’t anything great, with noted weaknesses in at least 2.  With 20 hp regen the dragon gets 2 hp per sec (regen is technically ten sec regen) so about 8.3 minutes to regen the full 1000 damage dealt before the push fires.  So I guess I’m wondering what the contributing factor is that it is taking 4+ minutes to kill 2 drakes?  It definitely shouldn’t, and if it is we will need to investigate further. 


    Depends on the Drake's resists.  I've seen some that are ridiculously high-end on the resist pool, similar to some mobs on Covetous Level 3 & 4 - when not using an Armor Ignore or Rune Corruption pet, those can take a while to kill.  I don't recall if that happened when I was in a larger group, although it might have been.  I'll summon another pair with a different tamer (the one I used earlier has the aforementioned Platinum Drake, which has Chivalry & Armor Ignore) and see what their resists are.

    One other question I have: I know the feather can decay once you've killed the drake that has it, but can it do so before the drake dies?  For a larger group, I can see that being an issue.

    edit: Just checked 2 pairs of drakes.

    73/71/70/61/69
    85/86/61/78/76

    Didn't check anything else on this pair.  Thought about it after I had killed them.

    Another pair, after coming back:

    76/73/77/76/65.  Skills: 106.7/100 Wrestle, 68.8/100 Parry.  Regens: HP & Stamina 50
    66/83/70/70/60.  Skills: 109.6/100 Wrestle, 75.1/100 Parry.  Regens were also 50 HP/Stamina

    I might do further testing with 3 clients later.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 510
    I just experienced the "stuck pet" bug in the belfry. Pretty quick turnaround for a GM to "unstick" my pet, BUT, if we have to deal with this every time we do the belfry, it's going to get REAL old, REAL quick! @Bleak @Kyronix please fix this, soon.
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • jaytinjaytin Posts: 417
    I thought the bug with pets getting stuck had been fixed already? 
  • ObuwObuw Posts: 47
    Kyronix said:

    The core loop with the belfry is drakes -> feather -> dragon, repeat.  You should be able to do upwards of 1000 damage to the dragon before the dragon flaps you off the platform.  Anyone who is experience something other than an approximate 1000 points of damage before getting pushed off, or roughly 1/10th of the dragons health, needs to send a report to uo@ broadsword.com with a minimum of the following information,
    # of characters in the party
    templates of the characters in the party
    makeup of the players/pets that are doing damage to the dragon before the dragon pushes you off
    approximate amount of damage being done to the dragon per hit from all sources.
    This is utterly terrible design, when you consider that the dragon starts chain-healing when you're off the platform.

    Even if you had to repeat that incredibly tedious cycle 10 TIMES to kill him, apparently as designed, it would be a horribly annoying encounter. But in practice by the time you're back up on the platform it heals at least 500 of that 1000 damage you've dealt.

    Not to mention, sometimes it kicks you off as soon as you hit him just once. Probably because the code is a broken mess.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited June 2018
    Wouldn’t it have just been easier (and better for the game as a whole) to have pets remain in game until your char is fully logged out? rather than specifically changing the belfry (and breaking it)
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • jaytinjaytin Posts: 417
    So this was all just some thinly veiled attempt at changing the pet auto-log out? Seriously Mervyn, good job, how many people have you now managed to utterly p*** off? Oh yes, all the rest of the people you hadn't managed to annoy yet. They are not going to change the pet logout, how many other parts of game content are you going to trash just to pointlessly try and get your own way?
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited June 2018
    Totally not my fault. I expressed my dissatisfaction of this “band aid solution” back in May.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    edited June 2018

    So when are we going to discuss other classes, such as pure mages, pure warriors, or spellweavers being able to do Shadowguard and Doom?

    Haven't we focussed enough of the game around Sampires and Tamers yet?



  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,208
    Yeah I honestly don't see how the pet log out thing was THAT bad in regards to the Belfry....throwing RC's up there along with the flying pets you could get up there without having to kill the drakes, at least in MY humble opinion, is more of an issue, if we are going that route....because every time I did the roof NO ONE was ever up on that platform, so the auto pet log out thing was a mute point. I can see it being PART of the issue, but not the main one. IF Kyronix wants people to do that room the correct way, he should find a way to dis-allow pets to fly up there on their own, dis-allow being able to cast EV's/RC's up there...yes all of you can hate me now for saying that lol but it's true..IF you are to do that room the correct way, those things should not be allowed.

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    I completely agree with Larisa and @Sliss
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TeapotTeapot Posts: 58
    I had no problems keying at all post patch, belfry didnt seem to take any longer at all on three tamers.  But obviously the roof itself is done for me.  Maybe Im just not good enough to do it with the change or my 3 tamers are just not going to be able to do it anymore.  Definitely taking a break this week to see what I want to do now, build a new team or just step away for a bit for rl.

    So I guess thanks for that @Kyronix
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited June 2018
    When you say you’re doing it on your 3 tamers.. Do you mean you’re multiclienting and soloing it? 

    If so maybe try doing it with other people. After all, this game is online. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TeapotTeapot Posts: 58
    Mervyn said:
    When you say you’re doing it on your 3 tamers.. Do you mean you’re multiclienting and soloing it? 

    If so maybe try doing it with other people. After all, this game is online. 
    If other people were around I would.  And transferring 20 characters to a new shard is a bit cost prohibitive.  Always look forward to your insults captain obvious.

    Perhaps with the dead servers they should make full account transfers.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    Well if you would like a friend to do the rooms with on Europa I will do them with you. Fwend.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • psychopsycho Posts: 334
    No idea why spend so much resources on roof encounter.

    Ive done roof 5 times, tagged along with some others, one of my chars has done all rooms and have been "roof ready" for over a year, the other close to 5months now.
    I found it boring and now with changes that makes it an even longer encounter zzZZzz.

    naW, focus the energy and resources on development that makes the game better in balanced instead, perhaps even new player friendly and maybe a few will stick around for more than two weeks.
  • ReywindReywind Posts: 17
    Mervyn said:
    I think you’ll find, this is what the original post is about, the belfry pushing the tamer off, which was only introduced a a way of countering logging out and in to move your pet up the top without having to get another feather. 

    The original post is not about fiendish ai calling. 

    I'm pretty sure the original post is about Shadowguard changes, since that's literally the name of the post. Thanks for your concern.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,239Moderator
    some posts have been removed. Please submit further information on this matter as requested by Kyronix to uo@broadsword.com
This discussion has been closed.