Devs should reconsider what transfers (Some/most Equipment Should)

DelkyDelky Posts: 7
I believe the devs being cautious with what transfers and what doesn't, reasonable. I however think that with primarily pets being xfered off and not equipment, it creates a deep divide at who and what playstyles are valued on New Legacy and in general the regular servers.

Here are some thoughts.

The clean answer is that New Legacy would get dumped to a new Shard "server" where all New Legacy players get dumped to and new production players can create on that "Production old season Legacy" server. It keeps stuff isolated like an "Eternal" server for a game like Diablo. People can choose to make characters on the server where they know the NL exists from the seasonal content and interact with it. The NL characters can then Xfer off without any of their NL stuff (Shard Bound) to their home server if they want. Then if people want NL stuff from the past seasons it still exists on an isolated server. Each season dumps characters on to the Production Legacy shard and it grows from there. This allows for everyone's "Legacy" to follow them to a production shard without it being lost, but it isolates the items (Obviously in future seasons they may just choose to have some items not make it to the "Production Legacy" server, but those can be known ahead of time).

The not so clean answer is to allow for specific sets of equipment to transfer and a list made public what will and won't delete upon transferring to their home production server. "No equipment" transferring kind of kills the "Legacy" part of New Legacy because to a Warrior character, their armor and weapons are their character like a tamer has their pets, a warrior has their gear. I think limiting it to only pets and no wearable equipment really hurts the warriors for maintaining their Legacy. I know there are many ways to go about this like the list of stuff that will xfer, or giving deeds that allow it to transfer off for only X amount of items etc... I understand the devs are playing it close to the chest right now, but for how absolutely rare some of the equipment is for how bad it is on production, I think killing off a warriors Legacy feels bad.  (Or you make equipment rain from the sky and no one feels bad when it goes away because it's so common and wasn't really earned, and therefor not part of the Legacy feel). 

The other way is just not have server transfers when the season is done and delete all NL characters (Which I know would have people stop immediately playing NL). However, I think people already have stopped because the lack of ability to transfer their "Whole" character so the philosophy just applies to all characters on the realm since it already applies to warriors. (Yes I know I am being a bit hyperbolic and deco and stuff is set to transfer, but for the most part equipment is deco when it comes to production due to how absolutely insanely busted gear is on production is when compared to NL, which is tame in comparison. 

These are just my thoughts and while it is a ramble to a degree I think it should be discussed. I know devs want to stop botting, and bots would absolutely ruin NL if they were as rampant as Atlantic. So if NL became a "Year Long Event" style server that was just filled with bots that would be horrible. However, I think that the blanket "No Equipment" should be discussed and re-evaluated (I know nothing is 100% set in stone, but I would love to see a discussion on this with pros and even the cons as I don't play on production so I don't know) My personal choice would be creating a Production Old Legacy that everyone gets dumped on to with all of their stuff, and some stuff is shard bound and can't xfer, but otherwise their character and other stuff could transfer to their home production server. I know doing that would create an extra step, but it does create a safety net. Just my 2 cents to get the topic started.

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Comments

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,699
    Do we have even the slightest clue about what's going to happen?
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    Grimbeard said:
    Do we have even the slightest clue about what's going to happen?
    Only what has been said previously in the dev chats and interviews. One of the comments they made was that "Equipment won't transfer to production". We have no specifics beyond that, and I wanted to get the discussion rolling so that the devs could at least see takes from the community.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,697
    I think only the sash and skills should transfer.

    Would we be able to advance skill train pets if they transferred?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • PitrPitr Posts: 196
    No offense to anyone, but if the deal is "Equipment won't transfer to production", I predict a very deserted NL, in a very short amount of time.

    My point of view.

    In felucca, we have risk versus reward, and those strong/wise/lucky enough to run the fel content, get the rewards.

    In NL, we have time investment versus reward, and those willing to explore a new shard get the rewards (new friends, new challenges and new gear/pets).

    No one is blocked from going to felucca and get its rewards, same way no one is blocked from playing nl and collect new gear.

    With the obvious unbalanced items that should not be transferred, the remaining gear that won't change the prodo UO shards, is a nice reward, and a Legacy.

    Like always, I can be wrong... just explain why...
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    I am right there with ya Pitr. I definitely am in the camp everything should xfer (Unless they did a super broken item for a season, which they haven't for this one). It's one reason I think if they feel there needs to be a safe guard they can dump all to a single shard "Eternal Legacy" to steal from Diablo's terminology or whatever it may be, but I think stuff needs to dump out onto an actual production server for players who are seeking to play with it after. It's part of the Legacy in my opinion.

    Diablo and other style seasonal games are very much in the, dump out everything on to their non-season content and then restart a new season of their seasonal content.

    I just hope we get clarification as "Equipment won't transfer" could have been "Some equipment" or "Not all equipment" with a caveat to come. 

    We are already having a stagnation and quitting problem on the server due to the extreme lack of attention and content the server gets (Which you would think there would be an over abundance of attention with it being the first season). 

    I will say, I have liked that the devs have been willing to get on and have round tables with TWL and discuss content even if incredibly vague. I just think that devs should hear the player voice that the Legacy comes with the equipment and the journey the players went through, and not just the pets.
  • PitrPitr Posts: 196
    ... and the new friends, don't forget the best part of NL <3
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 302
    I would say the opposite and that the bare minimum should be transferable as the dev's lack of info ruined the 1st season of new legacy for a lot of people.
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    edited April 1
    I would say the opposite and that the bare minimum should be transferable as the dev's lack of info ruined the 1st season of new legacy for a lot of people.
    That is absolutely 1 way to handle it. I am sure a majority of people would quit until next season bare minimum. 

    If you take that route, which they are kind of doing a half measure like that currently. People just stop playing because they're done since nothing they do matters anymore. By creating the "Nothing matters" people will just quit and wait until October (if they come back). That's why Diablo and other Seasonal games have a huge drop off after the first month or so is because people are done and did what they wanted, and since nothing matters they quit until the next seasonal challenge. I am not sure Broadsword wants a huge drop off and the server to be abandoned so quickly on a year long cycle.

    It's not a wrong option, and for a new thing that was dangled out there for 4 years, the lack of info and direction has been rather bothersome, to say the least.
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,495
    I think maybe there need to be some distinctions?
    Sure I'd like to take my mage's 'winter's light' with me, but I'm really not bothered about my archer's 'eminently accurate silver composite bow of vanquishing'.  It's nice on NL and I love the nostalgia of those old, familiar property names, but you'd never use it on a production shard.
    So, it's the named items we want to keep? not the basic equipment?
  • ChumboWumboChumboWumbo Posts: 59
    So do we have a list of what exactly will be transferable, or just vague statements? It'd be nice to know what I can keep and what I should just trash. Even if the majority of equipment is useless on production, I'd still like to have them for displays. I imagine most players who want items from NL don't expect the vast majority to be of any actual use on production servers. Collection is a major aspect of this game, after all.

    What about champ Artifacts? If any of them that aren't deco aren't transferable, why even bother going after them at all?
    My pronouns are: Cry/Me/A/River
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,414Moderator
    Because the stats on them are useful to your character while playing on NL?
  • ChumboWumboChumboWumbo Posts: 59
    Mariah said:
    Because the stats on them are useful to your character while playing on NL?
    If I don't get the benefit of keeping any of it, why am I wasting my time? If I'm already competent enough to participate in world bosses, what use do I have for a bunch of things I can't bring with me, and again, why should I even bother going for them? Why bother playing anything in NL but a tamer, if as far as we know, we're not keeping anything but a sash, some deco and our stables? If the intention of this was to draw new players in, I fail to see how kicking them to Prod servers with none of the things they earned beyond a pre-built character (which is quite trivial to do on your own these days on production shards, mind you) with no possessions and pretty much no money is going to encourage them in anyway to stick around.
    My pronouns are: Cry/Me/A/River
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    Mariah said:
    Because the stats on them are useful to your character while playing on NL?
    Fair, but then most players may be finished playing New Legacy. Once I have kind of done my thing on other games that have seasonal content, if I know that anything I do past the point is worthless, I tend to move on to the next game till the next season starts.

    I don't think this is what the NL development had in mind, and I don't believe they want abandoned servers so that no new players come to it. I definitely feel like the goal was to have active players year round.

    I understand that getting to X equipment and being able to beat Y is the intended goal, but once you have done that, then what is the push forward for many players. Collecting and showcasing items has pretty much been a thing since lockdowns and secures became a thing on UO decades ago. Yes, the quest items become worthless for use, but like Phoenix Armor, Ranger Armor, Daemon Bone Armor, and other hard to acquire items back when I used to play in 2000, people still collected them even if they were worthless for combat, because they were cool to display.

    With no grand point to NL beyond collecting right now, it seems weird to literally tell non-tamers they are leaving their Legacy behind instead of "Forging ahead" with their Legacy. 

    Petra_Fyde said:
    I think maybe there need to be some distinctions?
    Sure I'd like to take my mage's 'winter's light' with me, but I'm really not bothered about my archer's 'eminently accurate silver composite bow of vanquishing'.  It's nice on NL and I love the nostalgia of those old, familiar property names, but you'd never use it on a production shard.
    So, it's the named items we want to keep? not the basic equipment?
    Yeah, I am cool if the starter quest items and artifacts transfer and the random regular guarding/hardening.../invul/etc... equipment is deleted. I don't think anyone will mind their supremely accurate vanq disappearing, but they may mind their Crimson Dragon artifact that's a prefix Wyrmguard suffix weapon disappearing. 

    I think this is a good discussion, and hopefully the devs take it to heart. Look at other games with seasons; they are short because people abandon them when they are done because once you have accomplished the set goal... nothing else matters. If the devs want NL to become abandoned early on once people accomplish their goals, that is a perfectly acceptable way to develop (I might suggest they don't make their future seasons 1 year and maybe 4-6 months if they do that so when they are abandoned it's only abandoned a short while). However, I don't think that was their initial design for the server and a reason they chose the 1 year rotation as they wanted it played for the whole year (Which is awesome, and I like personally). I do think the idea of how and what transfers should be looked at as it seems like resoundingly at minimum, the artifacts should transfer off.

  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,414Moderator
    Are you all forgetting that publish 2 is due soon, and that the recent interviews have given hints of all kinds of interesting new items and activities?
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    Mariah said:
    Are you all forgetting that publish 2 is due soon, and that the recent interviews have given hints of all kinds of interesting new items and activities?

    You're right, but this goes into the "If nothing transfers, does it matter" type of category. If only the pet from the event transfers, what is the long term "Legacy" being done with the event. I wish we knew when it came out because Spring is a long time, and the patch arriving 2-3 months before the end of the server hits different than 5-6 months before the end of the server (Depending on when in October is the last day).

    I am just saying that they remove a lot of the "Legacy" aspects with a choice to prevent NL items from transferring and killing of warrior's and non-tamer builds who don't get to bring their spoils with them like tamers do.

    I haven't forgotten, but we know so little and we don't have a time frame, and with it possibly being in the "It doesn't transfer, so it doesn't matter to collect" possibility it puts a bit of a damper on such an event. We really know absolutely nothing, and while it could be awesome (Which it probably will be); at the end of the day if none of it transfers it probably won't keep people around who play production, and therefor draining the server more after the initial curiosity wares off.

    The devs seem like absolutely great people, and I know the team has to be tiny as all can be, which is why I think these posts are a great place for them to see voices and get information from the player base. It's a perspective they may not have realized or thought about.
  • ChumboWumboChumboWumbo Posts: 59
    Mariah said:
    Are you all forgetting that publish 2 is due soon, and that the recent interviews have given hints of all kinds of interesting new items and activities?

    It's hard to try and be civil when you deliberately ignore not only the point of the topic, but the valid points people are actually making. If you really care about something, you should not be so quick to discount criticisms of it. What purpose is feedback if you're just going to dismiss any you don't agree with off-hand? I don't air my frustrations because I have malice towards the game or dev team, I am as vocal as I am because I love this game but there is so much revolving around it that is very mishandled and it very often feels like serious issues go ignored.

    As Delky has stated, with no information on what transfers, and what we presently know, it again falls into the  "why should anyone even bother" category. With our present knowledge, it feels more like the time we as players are willing to put in the game isn't being valued by the team. The whole purpose of the NL project is to get more people into the game, there is so much fundamentally wrong with the whole thing that not only flies in the face of this goal, but actively hinders it, and this whole "what transfers and what doesn't" is one of the most glaring problems imaginable that shoots any prospects of maintaining new players long-term right in the head. MMO's are a long-term time investment for players, and those players often enjoy having the culmination of their achievements in a form in which they have something to show for it. This whole transfer issue is literally antithetical to how MMORPG's function.
    My pronouns are: Cry/Me/A/River
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,699
    The new communication is a million times better but the fact that they are working on second season with so many unanswered questions about the shattering is odd 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,697
    Since I hate skilling, the best part of NL is being able to make a GM skilled toon that I can take to shards I have no skilled toons on, which is all of them but 1.  Takes 1 weekend to fully 700 skill a toon in NL.  I can buy 20 points of pinks pretty cheap to finish them once they find a new home.

    Now is a good time to begin, the quest armor and weapons will be the maximum value.

    Those beginning armor sets and the sash would be good enough for me to take to another shard.

    Would be nice to know if pets can leave NL and will we be able to advance train them.  The pets will be worth a lot if you can take them away and trade them to others.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GarretGarret Posts: 243
    edited April 2

      I generally think that you can't give anything to transfer, in the first season you don't understand this yet, but if people understand that there will be something valuable on NL, the whole server will turn into a bot farm, I'm afraid that if pets are expensive, the second season will look much worse, the economy will be destroyed even within a month because bots will farm gold 24/7,simple things will cost millions of gold and as always, simple players or newbies will suffer.

      I understand that giving the possibility of transfer is devs method to attract an audience, but in my opinion NL should be original and attract players with content that they cannot get on the prodo servers, and not because the developers did not want it that way, but because in New Legacy there is an opportunity to build a new balance and give birth to a new idea for the game. 

      Let's say we give players who want more challenge the opportunity to prove themselves, PvP tournaments, PvP arena with a leaderboard, PvE raids for guilds and all of this already has its beginnings, and the rewards that we could transfer to the prodo server could be implemented in the form of promotional tokens that can be obtained through the game shop.

      For the leaders of races/events/laderboard, some kind of memorable gift - a special note to the Legacy Sash about the achievement, i.e.  winner of the PvP/PvE tournament NL first season. For all NL participants, a gift token, which can only be obtained on NL for, say, receiving all the medals for Legacy Sash and, say, 150+ hours of game time on the server.

    Then, after the end of the first season, a limited token is introduced for 1-2 months, which duplicates the gift token, but has a simpler version of rewards. Let's say (only one reward per account) - just as example.

    Gift token  - legacy shash with ur achivements (you receive it along with any other reward you choose)   
                     - 1 manticore/any NL pet of a random color.
                     - Armor set of your choice with a rare color that can only be on NL.
                     - deed for rare title (giga chad from NL)
                     - deed for one of ecnhant of new legacy
                     - rare deco etc          
                     - etc 

    Token from the shop - 1 manticore/any NL pet of only a normal color.
                                      - Armor set of your choice without rare color but with custom name.
                                      - deed for rare title (observer of giga chads from NL)
                                       - deed for one of ecnhant of new legacy (but limited)
                                       - common variant of NL decos 
                                        - etc   


      So the idea is to reward all participants of the season, without dividing them into right and wrong, allowing people to play whoever they want and receive equal rewards at the end of the season.
      The second idea is to earn money from promotional tokens on people who did not want to participate in NL, without punishing them for this, giving the option to try rewards, albeit in a slightly different format, and attract their attention to the project in the future.
  • DelkyDelky Posts: 7
    edited April 2
    Garret, what great ideas. NL could absolute flag a "Reward Achievement Token" like any other player reward or Veteran Reward gump on any server. I don't think time on the server is they way, but it's a solid foundation so I can get behind something that engages players like bosses/event participation.

    Kill X bosses or events and get Y token(s) and you can scale and cap. You could also create an exponential so people would keep playing until there is a set point where its just not time allowable.

    IE 50 bosses/events = 1 token, 200 bosses/events = 2 tokens, 400 bosses/events = 3 token, 700 bosses/events = 4 tokens, 1100 bosses/events = 5 tokens, 2000 bosses/events = 6 tokens into levels where you just can't reach them more than likely given the time on the server etc...

    These tokens then could then be used for specific rewards (Pets/Equipment Sets/NL specific stuff that devs do want to see on the servers).

    You create an end point for player accounts along with a continued chase if the really want. Some may go for 3 tokens and be happy or want to try and go for 7 by killing 3500 bosses or competing doing a mix of champ spawns, bosses, and other triggered events over the course of the year.

    You create something that players know they are going for, they can play any way they want because the token is what they are chasing, and you have players engaged with different aspects of the shard. You can make it account bound instead of character bound so that both characters can participate (I would suggest having the Conginarium in some way add to the event count, and have a continuous scale for the Congi each month or set time period for it if that was the path so it gives crafters a purpose because this season crafting fell very very flat)

    I like the input and thought there Garret, I appreciate the little fun you threw in the mix.

    (Added Note: In no way is my point scaling or amount representative of anything, and purely there as a scale of achievement and could obviously work scaled down or up for "Rewards" earned) Just a fun little thought exercise of design based on Garret's suggestion tossed into the mix.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,697
    I like the idea of an NL Season 1 banner or flag.

    Maybe some titles we could choose.


    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
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