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PvP and VvV

GarretGarret Posts: 220
in New Legacy

  Hello! Dear developers, I ask you to express your official position on the state of PvP/VvV in NL, not in terms of whether content awaits us or not, but in general, whether PvP is part of the content and game mechanics and whether it will be further developed as such.
  People come to the VvV spawn zone, confirm their consent to participate in PvP content, but immediately get angry and upset if someone kills them.
  I wasn't rude to anyone, I even returned the loot, but people immediately start getting angry and saying that I should be cancelled.
  Let's decide once and for all, NL is softcore for old-timers and newbies with absolute 0 risk or do you think that without PvP this server won't be complete?

P.S. Kyronix please, can i have honest answer.

@Kyronix @Parallax @Bleak ; @Community Manager
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Comments

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    No one will ever be happy you kill them maybe you need thicker skin if it bothers you ? I'd suggest you tell them to get gud 
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 5
    Grimbeard said:
    No one will ever be happy you kill them maybe you need thicker skin if it bothers you ? I'd suggest you tell them to get gud 
    No no, it doesn't bother me, I just want to understand people's position, they say that pvp steals their limited play time and NL has weird pvp rules, so I want to hear officially that pvp is part of the content, and not just someone's way to make fun/grief of someone.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    Garret said:
    Grimbeard said:
    No one will ever be happy you kill them maybe you need thicker skin if it bothers you ? I'd suggest you tell them to get gud 
    No no, it doesn't bother me, I just want to understand people's position, they say that pvp steals their limited play time and NL has weird pvp rules, so I want to hear officially that pvp is part of the content, and not just someone's way to make fun/grief of someone.
    It's there and working as intended but no one likes to be killed and if the developers have again placed things pwm players need in a pvp area forcing them to fight (ps on production shards idk on NL)this will continue 
  • PameleighaPameleigha Posts: 7
    Unfortunately for us all, The boss spawns in NL are all VvV only ,or in regular shards the only way to get power scrolls for your characters and pets. Soo we have this. People who enjojy PvP create characters to do so. Unfortunately for us "Trammies" who venture forth to glean what we can from PvP areas have to consent  to The VvV rules, or not do damage in NL boss spawns. So, we are forced. Most use tamers who are ill equipped to PvP. No resist, no parry, no defensive skills at all. one at most and parry needs stamina to work . 
    So VvV to me means you are either a Victimizer, Victim, or Vigilante'.  This puts tamers and most warriors in the victim department due to the skill build necessary to be that class of character. 
    Pets can be pulled off and left stupid somewhere leaving the tamer fairly defenseless.
    Sorry to say not many in NL want to play your game and play the Victim. So, we hunt in groups and will all kill you on sight. 
    Now, who is the victim? It's VvV working at its best ;)
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 5
    Unfortunately for us all, The boss spawns in NL are all VvV only ,or in regular shards the only way to get power scrolls for your characters and pets. Soo we have this. People who enjojy PvP create characters to do so. Unfortunately for us "Trammies" who venture forth to glean what we can from PvP areas have to consent  to The VvV rules, or not do damage in NL boss spawns. So, we are forced. Most use tamers who are ill equipped to PvP. No resist, no parry, no defensive skills at all. one at most and parry needs stamina to work . 
    So VvV to me means you are either a Victimizer, Victim, or Vigilante'.  This puts tamers and most warriors in the victim department due to the skill build necessary to be that class of character. 
    Pets can be pulled off and left stupid somewhere leaving the tamer fairly defenseless.
    Sorry to say not many in NL want to play your game and play the Victim. So, we hunt in groups and will all kill you on sight. 
    Now, who is the victim? It's VvV working at its best ;)
    In NL you have 99% non pvp content free from ganking and you bring your pve character in to this 1% pvp area and complain about been killed ? is it fair? nothing specific can be looted for pve character in this pvp zone that can't be looted outside of it btw.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    Garret said:
    Unfortunately for us all, The boss spawns in NL are all VvV only ,or in regular shards the only way to get power scrolls for your characters and pets. Soo we have this. People who enjojy PvP create characters to do so. Unfortunately for us "Trammies" who venture forth to glean what we can from PvP areas have to consent  to The VvV rules, or not do damage in NL boss spawns. So, we are forced. Most use tamers who are ill equipped to PvP. No resist, no parry, no defensive skills at all. one at most and parry needs stamina to work . 
    So VvV to me means you are either a Victimizer, Victim, or Vigilante'.  This puts tamers and most warriors in the victim department due to the skill build necessary to be that class of character. 
    Pets can be pulled off and left stupid somewhere leaving the tamer fairly defenseless.
    Sorry to say not many in NL want to play your game and play the Victim. So, we hunt in groups and will all kill you on sight. 
    Now, who is the victim? It's VvV working at its best ;)
    In NL you have 99% non pvp content free from ganking and you bring your pve character in to this 1% pvp area and complain about been killed ? is it fair? nothing specific can be looted for pve character in this pvp zone that can't be looted outside of it btw.
    No one CHOOSES the developers force pvp on unwilling people Biatch at them
  • PameleighaPameleigha Posts: 7
    I'm not complaining about it, I am just killing you before you kill me. Isn't that PvP? Or is it you just want to victimize the weak?  Like you did first time, just before the boss spawned and you went around killing the people who got the spawn to the boss level, so they could not rez in time to get rights to killing the boss? How is that even fair to you?
    We are forced to play your game, so we are. 
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    Pameleigha said:
    I'm not complaining about it, I am just killing you before you kill me. Isn't that PvP? Or is it you just want to victimize the weak?  Like you did first time, just before the boss spawned and you went around killing the people who got the spawn to the boss level, so they could not rez in time to get rights to killing the boss? How is that even fair to you?
    We are forced to play your game, so we are. 
    You enter pvp zone with the worning! Why are you not prepared for this scenario ? is it my fault ?

  • PameleighaPameleigha Posts: 7
    because when it takes 10 seconds to cast resurrect and someone blindsides you, there is no preparation is one scenario and exaclty when you killed my character while resurrecting a guildmate. 

    Also, you have been player killing at banks iouside of the VvV area when people are still orange and were clueless they could be killed outside of the VvV areas.

    So, now we are prepared and have no mercy on you as you didn't with us. Again, isn't that PvP how you would play it? 

    And really your questions show how truly lame this conversation is. You are just complaining because you are not winning this time. Just whining.
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 5
    because when it takes 10 seconds to cast resurrect and someone blindsides you, there is no preparation is one scenario and exaclty when you killed my character while resurrecting a guildmate. 

    Also, you have been player killing at banks iouside of the VvV area when people are still orange and were clueless they could be killed outside of the VvV areas.

    So, now we are prepared and have no mercy on you as you didn't with us. Again, isn't that PvP how you would play it? 

    And really your questions show how truly lame this conversation is. You are just complaining because you are not winning this time. Just whining.
    It wasn't me in town. And i didn't die ? im not complaining i just want to hear is pvp is part of the game or we should remove it bcz ppls think that is always unfair.


  • FelipoviskFelipovisk Posts: 15
    Free PvP in a open world is out of the question on NL. The only option for pvp is that outpost one. You see, miners, LJs and any kind of gatherer have an imaginary no bottom backpack that they hoard resources. Those resources doesnt weight, nor count as items in your backback and if you die you don drop them on your corpse. There is no option to be a thieve, so NL is Uo without freedom. Is a kid sandbox for babies, so they can play/toy together without being hurt.
  • ThaeydeThaeyde Posts: 10
    edited March 5
    Harassing people at champ spawns isn't going to win you any friends (Saying there is a warning is a silly hide behind for PKing people). If anything it will ostracize you and make your play experience worse, but I do understand some people thrive and lust for feeling like they are the victim when they have done horrible things to others and suffer the consequences so I can't get into your mindset if that's your fetish or not. If you want to PK so bad and be an asshole to others there are other shards set up specifically for that type of play, but usually those are for good players.
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 5
    Thaeyde said:
    Harassing people at champ spawns isn't going to win you any friends Garret. If anything it will ostracize you and make your play experience worse. If you want to PK so bad and be an asshole there are other shards set up specifically for that type of play.
    I can't do it outside of the VvV PvP spawn zone. When you enter this PvP zone you have warning about that, why do you call me harraser ? and asshole ? i'm not rude to any one, i'm polite and calm.
  • ThaeydeThaeyde Posts: 10
    Garret said:
    Thaeyde said:
    Harassing people at champ spawns isn't going to win you any friends Garret. If anything it will ostracize you and make your play experience worse. If you want to PK so bad and be an asshole there are other shards set up specifically for that type of play.
    I can't do it outside of the VvV PvP spawn zone. When you enter this PvP zone you have warning about that, why do you call me harraser ? and asshole ? i'm not rude to any one, i'm polite and calm.
    It is what it is. If someone doesn't engage you when they are trying to do a PVM event it's not being polite. It's a PVM event and people who go to grief people aren't engaging in pvp, they are PKing and harassing. 

    Do we have a shortage of consensual PVP areas? Yes, I wish we had an arena system or 1v1 duel pits. It doesn't change what attacking a PVM event is though. 

    Overall is this an issue that the devs created? Yeah, but also NL isn't a "PVP server" and isn't really designed with that in mind. Overall, if you do want competition and PVP you definitely should look at the servers that offer that as a primary option. 
  • FelipoviskFelipovisk Posts: 15
    idk if its me but everyone is crying about production shards being PvP the main focus and it is not. Uo Had a lot of pvp and pks and grief in the early years, nowadays there is no more pk. Ah but if you are trying to do champion spawns to get scrolls to train your pets, you have to deal with the fact you gonna be raided, for a grp of pks, or not, it doesnt matter anymore. 

    New legacy was the only possible way to bring back the world with pvp and pvm not being apart on 2 facets. So all those ppl talking about dont wanting to pvp, you already have it on production shards. New Legacy is supposed to bring new players and returning players a new enviroment, but they made this enviroment capped. You cant be an assassin, you cant be a crafter, you cant be a thief, you only have 2 or 3 paths, since crafter doesnt count for anything besides repairing and leveling the cogiarium system wich is pretty bad. 

    New legacy was the chance to bring usuless skills a revamp and bring them to relevancy, it could be a developer playground to come up with ideas on how to revamp the skills system and maybe bring it as content to production. But now, they opted for a pokemon game inside UO.
  • ThaeydeThaeyde Posts: 10
    Felipovisk, I am talking about servers I am not going to mention on the official UO server board. If you were to go to Reddit on the UO subreddit you would find what I am talking about regarding PvP servers. For the sake of respect towards the devs and the official nature of these boards I won't bring their names up specifically. It's those servers that I mean when I say PVP oriented, which some very much are.

    For a round 1 of the server, it's not bad. Could it be better? Yeah, but as a player who hasn't played in 20 years, I am personally enjoying it and having some great nostalgia and look forward with where they are going with it. 

    I hope they do make it a playground of fun testing stuff that stays isolated, but if a huge success they may implement in to production like Diablo does with their seasonal content.
  • RAVERRAVER Posts: 8
    Victims cannot distinguish between a player being a villain and a character playing a villain.

    First of all, the feeling of being harassed or bullied is something that the victim should decide, not the perpetrator, right?

    If you want to play a villain, you should play a villain thoroughly, and it seems contradictory to claim that your true self is polite and gentle.

    If the person playing the villain is recognized as a character that many people admire, I think the player who controls it will also be evaluated as a likable person, but it's 2025 now, and the world is moving in a direction that is stricter on harassment and kinder to the weak, so I feel that it's a high hurdle to be a lovable villain.

    The fact that murder is possible as a game system and actually committing murder are two different issues. Let's accept the risk of being scorned. It's just a game, after all.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    This almost as good as Siege drama :D
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 6
     
      I still not get the point that spawn is PVM encounter. You have warning about that is not and you have to press accept that you understand the risk.
      And every one says me that i should go retail or siege if i want PvP but same i can say for PvMs there is a lot safer and more conter for PvMs in retail shards?  Trammel ? 25 years of content?  why don't you go there insted ? Mby bcz you like NL mechanics as i like ? Everyone trying to play tolerance card but nobody care about my opinion so you metter and me no ? 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    Garret said:
     
      I still not get the point that spawn is PVM encounter. You have warning about that is not and you have to press accept that you understand the risk.
      And every one says me that i should go retail or siege if i want PvP but same i can say for PvMs there is a lot safer and more conter for PvMs in retail shards?  Trammel ? 25 years of content?  why don't you go there insted ? Mby bcz you like NL mechanics as i like ? Everyone trying to play tolerance card but nobody care about my opinion so you metter and me no ? 
    Even there was tram there they are forced by the developers to go into a pvp area to get things they need for their play style rather than another carrot used to draw pvm players they should have made pvp fun enough without victims 
  • ThaeydeThaeyde Posts: 10
    edited March 6
    Garret said:
     Everyone trying to play tolerance card but nobody care about my opinion so you metter and me no ? 
    At no point is anyone saying you can't do what you're doing. People are just saying it's bad manners. At no point can anyone stop you from harassing people on NL. It just comes with the risk of ostracizing yourself when you are killing and harassing a small community. You don't get rez'd, you don't get trades, you don't get heals, and in general you don't get help. 

    You can absolutely play the evil character, and absolutely no one can stop you. I think everyone, including myself, are trying to help point out that by doing that on a PVM centric server in PVM events will generate malice from those just trying to enjoy the game. The fact PVP is turned on in the champ spawns sucks, and it sucks on production they only exist in Fel (When they were created over 20 years ago though they were trying to revive Fel though. If they were designed today you wouldn't see that content in Fel, and honestly it's probably a reason UO in general lost ground in the MMO market). You can also see that they tried to pivot away from the high end value monsters being in PvP zones with AoS after the developers realized their mistake and started to hemorrhage players.

    PVM is incredibly popular, and yes no consequence consenting PVP is incredibly popular. Forcing non-consenting PVP is something that wasn't even really successful in UO which is why they pivoted to Trammel so quickly.

    People want you to enjoy the game. I want you to enjoy the game. I also want you to find a home that fits your play style which is why I recommended servers that would cater to more of the PvP/harassing PK playstyle for you that you seek.

    My last comment on this topic. I don't hate you for being a PK. I just don't ever want to interact or help you in game if you were to continue the behavior. Just like you can choose your interactions in game, so can I. I hope that at least sheds a little light onto the subject for you. 
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    Thaeyde said:
    Garret said:
     Everyone trying to play tolerance card but nobody care about my opinion so you metter and me no ? 
    At no point is anyone saying you can't do what you're doing. People are just saying it's bad manners. 
    Bad maners is to PvP in PvP zone ?
  • KazKaz Posts: 140
    Its not bad manners to pvp in a pvp zone.  Its totally fine. 

    But you have to keep in mind; when you kill someone, theyre not going to like it.  In turn, that player will view you as the murderer, the PK, the villain; regardless of if its a pvp zone or not.  Its human nature.  Clicking “I accept” on the gump doesnt cancel human nature, and its naive to expect people to be friendly with you after you have killed them. 

    A true dreadlord wouldnt care about being “cancelled”.   
  • GarretGarret Posts: 220
    edited March 8
    Kaz said:
    Its not bad manners to pvp in a pvp zone.  Its totally fine. 

    But you have to keep in mind; when you kill someone, theyre not going to like it.  In turn, that player will view you as the murderer, the PK, the villain; regardless of if its a pvp zone or not.  Its human nature.  Clicking “I accept” on the gump doesnt cancel human nature, and its naive to expect people to be friendly with you after you have killed them. 

    A true dreadlord wouldnt care about being “cancelled”.   
    BTW 
    It is not possible to drop karma lower then Evil... at least i didn't find any methodots to become dread lord. Stuck on 9901 minus karma.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,669
    Garret said:
    Kaz said:
    Its not bad manners to pvp in a pvp zone.  Its totally fine. 

    But you have to keep in mind; when you kill someone, theyre not going to like it.  In turn, that player will view you as the murderer, the PK, the villain; regardless of if its a pvp zone or not.  Its human nature.  Clicking “I accept” on the gump doesnt cancel human nature, and its naive to expect people to be friendly with you after you have killed them. 

    A true dreadlord wouldnt care about being “cancelled”.   
    BTW 
    It is not possible to drop karma lower then Evil... at least i didn't find any methodots to become dread lord. Stuck on 9901 minus karma.
    Bragging about killing nonpvp noobs on NL like kissing your sister but you go evil dude
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,295
    Garret said:
    Kaz said:
    Its not bad manners to pvp in a pvp zone.  Its totally fine. 

    But you have to keep in mind; when you kill someone, theyre not going to like it.  In turn, that player will view you as the murderer, the PK, the villain; regardless of if its a pvp zone or not.  Its human nature.  Clicking “I accept” on the gump doesnt cancel human nature, and its naive to expect people to be friendly with you after you have killed them. 

    A true dreadlord wouldnt care about being “cancelled”.   
    BTW 
    It is not possible to drop karma lower then Evil... at least i didn't find any methodots to become dread lord. Stuck on 9901 minus karma.
    I think this will be like OG Ultima Online where you need to lock your Karma before you've done even one good thing or you'll never make Dread or at least before the Shattering. 

    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • ThaeydeThaeyde Posts: 10
    Bragging about killing nonpvp noobs on NL like kissing your sister but you go evil dude
    That is why they have the saying, "Like shooting fish in a barrel". It's for failures who can't compete on an even field. 
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