I now remember why town invasions suck... 118.2 feedback

Lord_Nythrax

Pawain said:

As I said, You have no clue.

No dude, I'm totally on your side.

@Kyronix are you and the team aware that it's currently possible for tamers to be targeted by monsters on occasion? I assume this is some kind of horrible oversight. We demand an invulnerability flag for tamers and we demand it NOW.

gay

FYI: Paragon aggro is based on old Ancient Wyrm/Balron/Daemon/Dragon/EV/BS aggro. They aggro what moves.

For example, in this picture a tamer has found themselves incapable of not moving and is being chased by a paragon.



Meanwhile here are some other tamers dealing with the very same paragon in melee range.




And now here is pawain with again, the very same paragon.

Grimbeard

Lord_Nythrax said:

Sampires deserve to rule over the rest of you like gods, gods I say. Like seriously, how does a mage or a thrower or an archer even die in PVM? Do you just run around in circles forgetting to heal until eventually you get worn down by too many crappy low-damage mob spells, or what? Like just run five or six steps off screen and heal, bro. Tamers sob like children every time there's a monster that even dares to target them.

Nah but seriously they should go ahead and scale life leech off spirit speak, and make casting chivalry spells burn characters that are in necro forms, etc. People including me have been saying that for decades at this point.

And they should buff non-sampire melee. Not just quasi-buff it by adding some +healing artifacts to event rewards, but actually buff it in a meaningful way. I dunno if they have the chops for it though, maybe they're worried about mucking up PVP or something.

My thrower and archer and tamer somehow end up surrounded all the time not sure what pretend world you play in? 

Lord_Nythrax

Grimbeard said:

My thrower and archer and tamer somehow end up surrounded all the time not sure what pretend world you play in? 

How are you getting surrounded on a thrower or an archer? Seriously, literally, how? Outside of paragons nothing in this game moves particularly fast, are you just standing motionless and letting things melee you? Post video of whatever it is you're doing.

Grimbeard

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

My thrower and archer and tamer somehow end up surrounded all the time not sure what pretend world you play in? 

How are you getting surrounded on a thrower or an archer? Seriously, literally, how? Outside of paragons nothing in this game moves particularly fast, are you just standing motionless and letting things melee you? Post video of whatever it is you're doing.

Understand you can't throw/shoot while moving right?  

Pawain

This thread is not about tamers. Like the other threads its a whinefest about how a certain poster is complaining about his template being nerfed.

Some just don't understand that each template is nerfed in the dynamic dungeons the other templates have adapted, but a certain Sampire has made multiple threads about how the Sampire is being mistreated. The Devs don't need to increase the power of the most used attended template, the easy button Sampire.

I deal with them just fine @gay save those pics for Popps when he writes about it.  If you are having trouble just read one of my guides I have posted for each Dynamic Dungeon.

gay

Pawain said:

If you are having trouble just read one of my guides I have posted for each Dynamic Dungeon.

Thanks but on the rare occasion I need to look up event related information, I tend just to go to the people who actually drum up original source content for stuff and avoid the places that base all their "guides" on other people's works and findings.

*cah-ghs* 

Thanks for the offer though.

Pawain

It will remain to be determined which template will get drops the fastest.  I can safely say it wont be a tamer. Since you can make a high luck suit and stick it on an archer with an undead bow.  That would kill 90+% of the mobs encountered. Just run from things you don't like. Could have some fun following a sampire, killing the mobs in front of him. Let him get that last 30HP hit sometimes.

Oh wait, Thats what my Archer/Bard does. Follow my Warrior around singing him songs in the dynamic dungeons.

ForeverFun

Just did an experiment on origin shard.

Created brand new character, with 0 resists, wearing no armor.

Ran around entirety of jhelom (active invasion city) on foot for 5-6 minutes.

Thin spawn spread around.

Didn't die, didn't (and couldn't) heal or cast any spells.

I got hit by one spell.

Even the undead mounts moved slower than me on foot.

This isn't like the thick spawn of - at least - the early stages of past city invasions.

Pawain

ForeverFun said:

Just did an experiment on origin shard.

Created brand new character, with 0 resists, wearing no armor.

Ran around entirety of jhelom (active invasion city) on foot for 5-6 minutes.

Thin spawn spread around.

Didn't die, didn't (and couldn't) heal or cast any spells.

I got hit by one spell.

Even the undead mounts moved slower than me on foot.

This isn't like the thick spawn of - at least - the early stages of past city invasions.

The first time I went. I did this.  Invasion was Vesper.  Players were there using different templates. Was a small garg army.  I was on foot. I was able to evade 2 paragons.

Very sparce spawn.  Rumor says we begin tomorrow.   
  

Jepeth

username said:

People running and racing each other to spawn sounds more like playing a Running Simulator than an "invasion". And for those on foot with a triton or other pet? Even less fair, they just lose. Do not gaslight me and say people are sitting still and letting spawn come to them. That's really never been a thing at these ToTs (aside Destard). Ideally, I'd rather be doing more fighting than moving, not 90% moving 10% fighting that it is now.

Fun word. But I've played every one of these new style treasures events, and people camping spots has always been a thing for certain groups. Why else was the anti-afk system put into place? Winter Spur was -especially- bad for this with people just sitting on boats along the coast, AOE'ing away.

Sorry, but I think moving around while playing is good. You don't have to agree with me and preferring less active game play is entirely within your right. But there are a ton of ways to play UO and designing events entirely so people don't have to find action or don't have to deal with movement speed reduction cause they use Tritons? Are you secretly Popps trying to give the poor tinkerers something to do, too?

username said:

It's not that the drop rate is necessarily bad... well, it is compared to the last 3 years of previous ToTs... It's that these towns are inherently broken for doing them. I would invite you to read the rest of the thread if you wish, plus the feedback on the 'unofficial forums', as it's been explained by multiple users.

PS: you are averaging 19 drops an hour if I take your numbers as gospel. It will take you over 10 hours to acquire an ursine. 3-5 hours per gear piece, depending. I don't think that's acceptable and is very low compared to the last few years of ToTs.

I have read the rest of the thread. Here's the fun part of this event. If you don't want to do a town you don't like: don't! There are other cities to do instead. Besides that, there was still plenty of spawn in Trinsic that was not stuck in a wall and sometimes would teleport out. I disagree with your characterization of 'broken.'

And yeah fella, I know how to multiply. 20 or so drops an hour of fairly relaxed game play (despite the running!!) without paying for a potion isn't bad at all. 10 hours to acquire the ursine? Compared to the hundreds of hours some folk sink into getting the right cu sidhe hue I think that's pretty reasonable for a new ridable, trainable pet.

If you don't want to put effort into the event, if you don't want to play anywhere you haven't already played, if you don't want to play any kind of character you haven't played before, if you don't want to work for the rewards: why are you playing Ultima Online?

Grimbeard

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

Understand you can't throw/shoot while moving right?  

You understand you can move between shots, right? Outside of paragons, everything moves so slowly that you should easily be able to plink repeatedly before stepping around to regain distance. Seriously, what are you doing? Why is someone who needs to be told this standing around talking about the game like they know anything?

Pawain said:

This thread is not about tamers. Like the other threads its a whinefest about how a certain poster is complaining about his template being nerfed.

Some just don't understand that each template is nerfed in the dynamic dungeons the other templates have adapted, but a certain Sampire has made multiple threads about how the Sampire is being mistreated. The Devs don't need to increase the power of the most used attended template, the easy button Sampire.

I deal with them just fine @ gay save those pics for Popps when he writes about it.  If you are having trouble just read one of my guides I have posted for each Dynamic Dungeon.

Did you catch the latest patch notes? They at least partially un-nerfed life leech on event paragons, so no I don't think they have me blocked.

And seriously, what is it you play that you think gives you any right to complain about other peoples easy buttons? Is it your multibox archer squad? You know you'd be banned as a cheater trying to pull that shit in any other game right?

Or is it your tamer? Are you under the impression that playing a PVM tamer makes you some kind of authority on skill? You actually had the gall to complain about the fact that monsters target you sometimes, how much more coddled could you be?

You couldn't play more of a soft safe easymode set of characters if you tried. So maybe just sit down, STFU, and be glad this game is too broke to ban you for multiboxing.

Gee all I have to do is stop shoot move stop shoot move wait what's  that guy with an ax doing all the monsters dead... you truly are out of touch 

username

Jepeth said:

Fun word. But I've played every one of these new style treasures events, and people camping spots has always been a thing for certain groups. Why else was the anti-afk system put into place? Winter Spur was -especially- bad for this with people just sitting on boats along the coast, AOE'ing away.

Sorry, but I think moving around while playing is good. You don't have to agree with me and preferring less active game play is entirely within your right. But there are a ton of ways to play UO and designing events entirely so people don't have to find action or don't have to deal with movement speed reduction cause they use Tritons? Are you secretly Popps trying to give the poor tinkerers something to do, too?

It's unfortunate that people have receipts for their claims: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13207/current-state-of-the-tot-on-atlantic and you're welcome to check any of my other posts... I even have posts as far back as Deceit round 1/2 and Wildfire saying and showing this exact thing.

No one was sitting AFK on boats. That would be dumb. 1/4 of your screen has no spawn, what a terrible idea. Maybe you did it? I did extensive Winter Spur and the Wastes. Very few were sitting still, mostly tamers, and no one was sitting on a boat. The anti AFK system has/had nothing to do with Winter Spur. It was put in during Destard because there were 2 spawns and everyone was sitting still. Do not gaslight me, I've already told you, you are wrong.

https://i.giphy.com/15BuyagtKucHm.webp

Jepeth said:

I have read the rest of the thread. Here's the fun part of this event. If you don't want to do a town you don't like: don't! There are other cities to do instead. Besides that, there was still plenty of spawn in Trinsic that was not stuck in a wall and sometimes would teleport out. I disagree with your characterization of 'broken.'

And yeah fella, I know how to multiply. 20 or so drops an hour of fairly relaxed game play (despite the running!!) without paying for a potion isn't bad at all. 10 hours to acquire the ursine? Compared to the hundreds of hours some folk sink into getting the right cu sidhe hue I think that's pretty reasonable for a new ridable, trainable pet.

If you don't want to put effort into the event, if you don't want to play anywhere you haven't already played, if you don't want to play any kind of character you haven't played before, if you don't want to work for the rewards: why are you playing Ultima Online?

Cu sidhe are not temporary spawn. This event is. Why are you comparing two different things? Why are you discussing things in bad faith that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand? 

Wow, took all of 2 seconds to find a bunch of stuck monsters, empty screens, and multiboxers on Baja! So much for anti bot rotating city technology! I found at least 10 AFK completely botted on rails sampires too.

Only 8 stuck monsters in one screen! Couldn't find an angle to hit them with arrows, shucks, better go wait 2 minutes swap characters to kill them to wait 2 more minutes to swap back to my main. Exhilarating game play @Kyronix ;


Dense spawn here, same for all this area of the Inn/Stable area, 3-5 screens worth. Think this area is just completely ignored from what I've seen.

Wow afk multiboxers!
https://streamable.com/yel6ir

username

The funny thing I just realized: multiboxers in the videos in this post  https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13207/current-state-of-the-tot-on-atlantic are some of the same players that were AFK 24/7 doing manifestations on Atlantic. LOL so many of the same characters 

Pawain

Jepeth

username said:

No one was sitting AFK on boats. That would be dumb. 1/4 of your screen has no spawn, what a terrible idea. Maybe you did it? I did extensive Winter Spur and the Wastes. Very few were sitting still, mostly tamers, and no one was sitting on a boat. The anti AFK system has/had nothing to do with Winter Spur. It was put in during Destard because there were 2 spawns and everyone was sitting still. Do not gaslight me, I've already told you, you are wrong.

I'm so impressed with your ability to be on every shard at every moment through a multi-week event!

They definitely were doing this on the handful of shards I play. You can choose to disbelieve me if you wish. My game play style in UO is not to record every grievance I have, so I don't have a screenshot to show you.

username said:

Cu sidhe are not temporary spawn. This event is. Why are you comparing two different things? Why are you discussing things in bad faith that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand?

Fine: Compared to the nearly hundred hours or more some folk sink into getting the right intensity and hue'd nightmare during this temporary event, I think that's pretty reasonable for a new ridable, trainable pet.

You're welcome to your opinion man. You posted a thread outlining your issues, I've responded to it with my own observations. Neither of us are gospel in this matter.

But you keep saying things like:

username said:

People continuously try to straw man this, where the main point is that towns are factually just bad for these ToT style events. I don't really care your drop rate, or if I have to swap 3 different templates to kill different types of stuck monsters, the fact remains ToTs in towns is annoying and not ideal for legitimate players.

username said:

@ Kyronix in addition to towns, PLEASE give us Winter Spur, similar, or a dungeon, somewhere that isn't plain ANNOYING AND BROKEN to fight in. You know towns are not salvageable, I've proved it. If not, congrats bots you've been handed the event.

username said:

 Do not gaslight me, I've already told you, you are wrong.

Some kvetching about spawn from one city (out of what, eight in this event?) even before the event has fully hit live and then reiterating over and over that 'you're right!' doesn't convince me of anything.

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't your cup of tea and that doesn't have anything to do with the design but your own personal, individual preferences?

username

Jepeth said:

username said:

Cu sidhe are not temporary spawn. This event is. Why are you comparing two different things? Why are you discussing things in bad faith that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand?

Fine: Compared to the nearly hundred hours or more some folk sink into getting the right intensity and hue'd nightmare during this temporary event, I think that's pretty reasonable for a new ridable, trainable pet.

Oh. So wait, you mean they added several additional nightmare spawns on top of the handful that already exist to make things easier for players?

So what you're trying to say, is that adding another area, that's not a city, would track with what the devs have already done AND be consistent is what you're saying? Sounds good to me, we agree.

Whitewolf

lol reading these comments are hilarious, seems like people are paying monthly fee just to have something to complain and whine about, there is nothing wrong with the current events, ya trinsic is kinda of a pain but its doable, and as far as complaining about bots, well that Atlantic problem you got atleast 30 other servers that dont have a bot problem, you choose to play on Atlantic no one forced you to, so thats a you problem, and far as templates go, tamers, sampires, archery, mystic they all doin good and getting drops. If your dieing alot and not getting drops, well learn to play your class.

username

Whitewolf said:

lol reading these comments are hilarious, seems like people are paying monthly fee just to have something to complain and whine about, there is nothing wrong with the current events, ya trinsic is kinda of a pain but its doable, and as far as complaining about bots, well that Atlantic problem you got atleast 30 other servers that dont have a bot problem, you choose to play on Atlantic no one forced you to, so thats a you problem, and far as templates go, tamers, sampires, archery, mystic they all doin good and getting drops. If your dieing alot and not getting drops, well learn to play your class.

You are misunderstanding the thread completely and multiple people have outlined obvious issues with the towns for invasions. Please go back and ACTUALLY READ it.

Jepeth

username said:

Jepeth said:

username said:

Cu sidhe are not temporary spawn. This event is. Why are you comparing two different things? Why are you discussing things in bad faith that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand?

Fine: Compared to the nearly hundred hours or more some folk sink into getting the right intensity and hue'd nightmare during this temporary event, I think that's pretty reasonable for a new ridable, trainable pet.

Oh. So wait, you mean they added several additional nightmare spawns on top of the handful that already exist to make things easier for players?

So what you're trying to say, is that adding another area, that's not a city, would track with what the devs have already done AND be consistent is what you're saying? Sounds good to me, we agree.

So you do want the event to be easier? You can just say that.

username

Jepeth said:

So you do want the event to be easier? You can just say that.

Now you're trying to straw man. I never said that.

What I want is clearly laid out, well, it would have been if you read the post and @Kyronix check it out:

* I want spawn rates and densities to be in line with previous ToTs,
* I want the drop rates to be consistent with previous ToTs,
* I want the areas to be easy to navigate, and not running simulators, like with previous ToTs.
(They all kind of play off of and affect each other.)

I feel like this isn't asking much, but apparently some people are gluttons for punishment and want worse in every category. I'll send it back your way: why do you want these events so much harder in every category an hand it to afk bots?

Cookie

username said:

Jepeth said:

So you do want the event to be easier? You can just say that.

Now you're trying to straw man. I never said that.


What I want is clearly laid out, well, it would have been if you read the post and @ Kyronix check it out:

I want spawn rates and densities to be in line with previous ToTs,
I want the drop rates to be consistent with previous ToTs,
I want the areas to be easy to navigate, and not running simulators, consistent with previous ToTs.
(They all kind of play off of and affect each other.)

I feel like this isn't asking much, but apparently some people are gluttons for punishment and want worse in every category. I'll send it back your way: why do you want these events so much harder an hand it to afk bots?

But these are Town Invasions.
And last time, many players, probably such as yourself, complained non-stop about the ToTs and said we must have Town Invasions now, so here we are.
It's a change, go with it.
One thing I find about Test, is they can never simulate enough numbers, we don't know how it will go. They seem able to turn spawn up and down as needed.
Honestly it gets boring.

It's a bit like the Atlantic Sampire guy, learned to play the most basic template in the game and thinks he is something, never stops whining, it is draining. You suck the energy out of the room.

Jepeth

username said:

I want spawn rates and densities to be in line with previous ToTs,
I want the drop rates to be consistent with previous ToTs,
I want the areas to be easy to navigate, and not running simulators, consistent with previous ToTs.
(They all kind of play off of and affect each other.)

I feel like this isn't asking much, but apparently some people are gluttons for punishment and want worse in every category. I'll send it back your way: why do you want these events so much harder an hand it to afk bots?

Which ToT?

What spawn rate? The one you have observed? The one I have observed? The ones my min-maxing power gaming friends observe?

Drop rates have been inconsistent between every single ToT. Some were harder, some were easier. That's life.

It's a game, there are going to be objects in your way. Bleating on about having to run around, again, makes it sound like you are asking for the easy button. The design of this event is an invasion in a town. Securing the whole town is the central conceit.

You don't think it's asking much because you seem pretty sure of your point of view in the matter (as evidenced above). I also don't think you're giving proper due to the work it takes to create these events. I'm skeptical of anyone in this community who thinks anything can just be done easy.

But alright, I'll answer your question: I don't wish to dumb the event down or make it easier because in my play testing on Baja I thought it was already pretty good! I was happy with my drop rate, happy with the reward choices, and completely not bothered by the map issues you bring up.

You're obviously dissatisfied with the game, username. Your post history is just screed after screed revealing how deep that dissatisfaction goes. Your forum icon is the UO logo with a trash can over it, for pete's sake. I know you're not a troll; you are clearly passionate about these issues. I think the only thing you and I are going to agree on right now is that you're unhappy here, but I and a lot of other posters in this thread would really like it if you stopped trying to drag us into your dissatisfaction.

username

Jepeth said:I and a lot of other posters in this thread would really like it if you stopped trying to drag us into your dissatisfaction.

There are numerous people that agree with me. Are you blind?

Please do all of us a favor: if you don't like my posts then stop posting in them. It's quite simple! 

Petra_Fyde

I once told Calvin, years back, that you can please some people some of the time, some people all of the time but some people you just can't please any of the time. There are a few of that last group around here.
If the spawn is bunched up all in one place, then the bots get it and everyone complains. 
If the spawn is at a random location the players get it - unless some idiot gates in the bots. Our alliance on Europa are spawning the manifestation and we gate to our guild house for our allies to come kill it. No bots. 
Now, this new event, requires you to move around all over the towns, making afk tracking of the spawn more difficult and reducing the accessibility to bots, and you're STILL not happy. What would it take to make you miserable lot happy?

keven2002

Whitewolf said:

lol reading these comments are hilarious, seems like people are paying monthly fee just to have something to complain and whine about, there is nothing wrong with the current events, ya trinsic is kinda of a pain but its doable, and as far as complaining about bots, well that Atlantic problem you got atleast 30 other servers that dont have a bot problem, you choose to play on Atlantic no one forced you to, so thats a you problem, and far as templates go, tamers, sampires, archery, mystic they all doin good and getting drops. If your dieing alot and not getting drops, well learn to play your class.

I don't think that's really a fair way of thinking; "If you play ATL that's a you problem". That would be like me saying "Oh you play a low pop shard - well that sounds like a you problem the spawn is too much". On ATL, I don't think a single person will be dying from the spawn because it's not crowded enough to even slightly overwhelmed.

All I'm asking for as an ATL player is for the spawn to reflect the number of players (bots and all) so that the normal players are able to achieve the same as others on their shards.

Cookie

keven2002 said:

Whitewolf said:

lol reading these comments are hilarious, seems like people are paying monthly fee just to have something to complain and whine about, there is nothing wrong with the current events, ya trinsic is kinda of a pain but its doable, and as far as complaining about bots, well that Atlantic problem you got atleast 30 other servers that dont have a bot problem, you choose to play on Atlantic no one forced you to, so thats a you problem, and far as templates go, tamers, sampires, archery, mystic they all doin good and getting drops. If your dieing alot and not getting drops, well learn to play your class.

I don't think that's really a fair way of thinking; "If you play ATL that's a you problem". That would be like me saying "Oh you play a low pop shard - well that sounds like a you problem the spawn is too much". On ATL, I don't think a single person will be dying from the spawn because it's not crowded enough to even slightly overwhelmed.

All I'm asking for as an ATL player is for the spawn to reflect the number of players (bots and all) so that the normal players are able to achieve the same as others on their shards.

Ultimately far too many players migrated to Atlantic because of the perceived benefits.
There were obvious drawbacks as well, this is one of them.
Got to take the rough with the smooth.
I'm sure the Devs will be nice to you and fix it, but actually it is a player created problem, and a player solvable problem.

username

Petra_Fyde said:

Now, this new event, requires you to move around all over the towns, making afk tracking of the spawn more difficult and reducing the accessibility to bots, and you're STILL not happy. What would it take to make you miserable lot happy?

Logical fallacy, false premise (or, garbage in=garbage out):
A false premise is an incorrect assumption or belief that forms the basis of an argument. If the starting point is wrong, the conclusion is likely to be wrong as well.

Your starting point, incorrect assumption (garbage in): requires you to move around all over the towns making afk tracking of the spawn more difficult

Conclusion, that is wrong (garbage out):  reducing the accessibility to bots

The bots are 100% automated. They don't care if monsters are behind 14 doors and 62 staircases. They are AFK. They move around like little army ants, they don't get a F about 'tracking'. Go take a look yourself. Or check out some of my old posts, https://forum.uo.com/discussion/13207/current-state-of-the-tot-on-atlantic ;

Making monster spawn very sparse ONLY is felt by ATTENDED players. You are seriously trying to fatigue a program by your "making tracking difficult", when instead, it is just punishing legitimate players. Great call!

What would we like to make us happy? You should actually read the thread before posting nonsense. It's only been outlined and said 90000 times.

username

And now that I have several Atl invasions under my belt: the spawn is....

*drumroll*

Shockingly slow. The drop rate? I'm at 10.3 per hour. Lol, Jhelom was desolate, even with the sampire bots firing on all cylinders. Same bots that have been 24/7 afk at the manifestation too!

Lord_Nythrax

Grimbeard said:

Gee all I have to do is stop shoot move stop shoot move

Uh... yeah buddy, you're playing an archer. If you can't be arsed to move, and plan to just sit in one place, you should probably just roll melee. Ranged templates are expected to maintain a certain amount of, you know, range.

Grimbeard said:

what's  that guy with an ax doing all the monsters dead... you truly are out of touch 

So you're mad that archery doesn't have an area-damage ability like whirlwind? Yeah dude that's the price you pay for not having to go near the monsters in the first place. You can drop top-tier damage on single targets without being exposed to melee damage at all, while keeping them at a distance so you can easily run back a few squares to heal in safety if their spells or whatever get to be too much.

You must primarily hunt pretty low-level things to think the ability to whirlwind trash mobs away is decisive. (I mean it's important to do at champ spawns, but you wouldn't be complaining about the axe guy if that's where you were, you'd be glad he was doing the busywork for you.) There's nothing wrong with playing at a low level, games are intended for idle amusement, but you shouldn't run around throwing your little balance and design ideas around like you're super well-informed.