Is It Time to Rethink the EJ Banking System?

MacroPlanet

At the time when EJ was announced it made sense, at the time, to limit the EJ accounts banking options. However, it’s been several years and the system kind of feels outdated. Is it time to maybe rework how EJ banking works? My thoughts are listed below, let me know what you all think. 

**Current System**

Under the current system, EJ accounts can access their bank boxes but face limitations:

- If the total number of items in the bank exceeds a certain threshold, EJ players cannot withdraw items.

- This restriction is intended to encourage upgrading to a subscription but can result in a frustrating experience for EJ players, especially those returning to the game after a hiatus.

**Proposed Improvements**

**Tiered Withdrawal System**

   - Introduce a tiered withdrawal system where EJ accounts can withdraw a limited number of items per day or week. This allows players to manage their items without feeling completely blocked by the item limit.

   - Example: EJ accounts can withdraw up to 10 items per day from their bank regardless of the total number of items stored. This daily cap can balance gameplay while providing flexibility.

**Subscription Incentives and Bonuses**

   - Instead of hard restrictions, create attractive incentives for upgrading to a subscription. Provide exclusive bonuses and benefits for subscribers that enhance the overall experience without making EJ players feel penalized.

   - Example: Subscribers could receive exclusive cosmetic items, increased storage capacity, or faster travel options, highlighting the value of upgrading without directly restricting EJ accounts.

**In-Game Notifications and Alerts**

   - Implement an alert system that notifies EJ players when they are approaching the item limit, providing clear communication and suggestions for managing their inventory.

   - Example: An in-game message or pop-up alert when the player’s bank item count is nearing the limit, with recommendations on how to consolidate or manage items.

Pawain

Too many posters hate EJ accounts and blame them for every bad thing in UO.

Personally I would be fine if there were no restrictions on EJ accounts.  I have never used one.

JackFlashUk

No,  you want it, you pay like the rest of us

my opinion, EL should be stuck in Haven and NEVER be allowed to partake in any events or travel

too much abuse of the game due to EJ, scripting cheating etc

NO privileges at all

I don't care if EJ players are offended

PAY YOUR WAY

Its should be for players how are curious and want to try the game out, before ether sub, it should not be a free ticket to play the game

Go to a free shard if you don't like it

At least, thats how I see it

Grimbeard

JackFlashUk said:

No,  you want it, you pay like the rest of us

my opinion, EL should be stuck in Haven and NEVER be allowed to partake in any events or travel

too much abuse of the game due to EJ, scripting cheating etc

NO privileges at all

I don't care if EJ players are offended

PAY YOUR WAY

Its should be for players how are curious and want to try the game out, before ether sub, it should not be a free ticket to play the game

Go to a free shard if you don't like it

At least, thats how I see it

+1

Pawain

Like I said, the EJ hate is strong here.  Best to email the devs and Mesanna with your ideas.  Then get them implemented behind the haters backs. 

Victim_Of_Siege

Pawain said:

Like I said, the EJ hate is strong here.  Best to email the devs and Mesanna with your ideas.  Then get them implemented behind the haters backs. 

I just don't see that happening. They have the EJ vault token for 300 sovereigns if you need more storage. why would they lose out on the money by giving it away for free. I could be wrong, but doubt it.

Skett

EJ accounts should have all the test center entitlements plus max storage 

Grimbeard

Pawain said:

Like I said, the EJ hate is strong here.  Best to email the devs and Mesanna with your ideas.  Then get them implemented behind the haters backs. 

No hate at all but free to play makes UO pay to win and I'm ok with that put everything the RMT sellers have in the UO store and let us choose how we want to play

Skett

how about all of us that pay are subs could pay more per a month so the ej accounts can have no restrictions and get it all for free sounds fair right ?

Pawain

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Pawain said:

Like I said, the EJ hate is strong here.  Best to email the devs and Mesanna with your ideas.  Then get them implemented behind the haters backs. 

I just don't see that happening. They have the EJ vault token for 300 sovereigns if you need more storage. why would they lose out on the money by giving it away for free. I could be wrong, but doubt it.

I get hate for telling everyone their idea is bad or will not happen, so I do the opposite and get hate then. 

Victim_Of_Siege

Pawain said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Pawain said:

Like I said, the EJ hate is strong here.  Best to email the devs and Mesanna with your ideas.  Then get them implemented behind the haters backs. 

I just don't see that happening. They have the EJ vault token for 300 sovereigns if you need more storage. why would they lose out on the money by giving it away for free. I could be wrong, but doubt it.

I get hate for telling everyone their idea is bad or will not happen, so I do the opposite and get hate then. 

No hate, just stating the fact that it is unlikely to happen as there is an option available that brings in revenue. If there was hate, there'd have been a few more MEME's/GIFS and expletives in my post. I personally like EJ's because I us a -29 wand on them and make quick high magery characters to use as healers, or park them in troublesome to access places (such as the sea market) to have quick transport. 

Urge

As a person that skirts a lot of boundaries I think EJ isn't limited enough. 

That said, I also dislike the EJ bank system. 

sibble

I've helped several returning players come back to 'test the waters' using EJ - every single one of them ended up confused and disappointed with the EJ banking system.

The tiered/gated way of handling item transactions through EJ banking is an excellent idea.  I keep suggesting ways to gate systems but I fear they fall on deaf ears.  Gating systems allows you to regulate without removing features.

I think it's important to keep a system in place to let curious/new/potential customers get a taste of what the game is like without having to commit to a subscription - whether that be continuing to improve the EJ system or utilizing 30/60-day trials.

To the people who are upset about EJ users scripting/cheating:

- EJ doesn't enable scripting, so blaming the EJ system for cheaters is inaccurate.

- Clearly subscribed users are doing the same thing.

Positive game changes get diminished because people worry about how something is going to be scripted.  The reality is that whatever is added, the scripting community is going to find a way to automate it.

Look at the massive IDOC changes that happened.  There was only one true benefit in regards to anti-scripting, which was that bots couldn't automatically pickup ultra-rare items.  Yet I see people still complaining about scripting IDOCs, daily.  What a colossal change with minimum impact.  All that had to be done was make items fall into containers instead of to the ground.

There is only one way it will be stopped and that's if 3rd party client usage is blocked - which isn't a topic for this thread.

Oreogl

Endless journey does enable cheating based on low risk high reward scripting.

get banned for scripting splinter weapons etc?  Using multiple free accounts at roof? (Endless journey should not get drops from this imo.)  Who cares?  Make another account without repercussions to their main account.  

For returning players, the only change Id like to see is the ability for removal of all items exceeding the 20-25 limit.  So if you have 100 items you can take them all out but cannot add back in until it’s below 25 and cannot exceed 25 after it’s below it.

sibble

Oreogl said:

Endless journey does enable cheating based on low risk high reward scripting

This would be true if there was any risk to subscribed users scripting which there currently isn't so that statement is inaccurate.

I don't understand, do you not see the plethora of complaints about people scripting events, scripting PVP and scripting IDOCs?  Subscribed users continue to play and script, every day, so exactly who is getting banned?

There is no consequence for subscribed users therefore EJ does not enable scripting.

If anything, from the actions I've seen and the forums posts I've read, EJ users have it harder than subscribed users, because...  EJ users actually get banned when they're caught - which I applaud.

It's literally the direct opposite of what you believe.

We're stunting growth and preventing potential positive changes because "we can't do that because bots."

Grimbeard

IF any ej accounts were actually new/returning players I might be more supportive..but we all know that's not the case 

sibble

Here's a discussion with a potential returning player who played from 97-04 struggling to work with the only storage option they have:

I sit on the Ultima Online sub Reddit all day and talk to new/returning players weekly.

I completely understand your view and agree that there are EJ users that are not actual new/returning players.  In the past month I've helped 3 legitimate potential returning players who are currently EJ status.  Each of those players have potential to subscribe, and bring in their friends.

Riner

JackFlashUk said:

No,  you want it, you pay like the rest of us

my opinion, EL should be stuck in Haven and NEVER be allowed to partake in any events or travel

too much abuse of the game due to EJ, scripting cheating etc

NO privileges at all

I don't care if EJ players are offended

PAY YOUR WAY

Its should be for players how are curious and want to try the game out, before ether sub, it should not be a free ticket to play the game

Go to a free shard if you don't like it

At least, thats how I see it

         Completely agree that there is no logical reason to allow such freedom for EJ accounts. Having the limit of Haven would give the ability to experience the games machines without any of the benefits of paid accounts. I would also suggest that EJ accounts have all skills cap'ed at 100. There is no reason that a free account should have the same level of abilities as paid accounts. 

@Pawain I have no hate for EJ players however, I do recognize when something is more of a determent to Ultima Online than a benefit.

          It's true that these changes would mean that the choice to pay for the privilege of experiencing the rest of this realm would have to be made sooner, it is also true that this means everyone contributes to the health of this game to the same degree by paying for a subscription if they wish to move an account out of Haven, 

Oreogl

sibble said:

Oreogl said:

Endless journey does enable cheating based on low risk high reward scripting

This would be true if there was any risk to subscribed users scripting which there currently isn't so that statement is inaccurate.

I don't understand, do you not see the plethora of complaints about people scripting events, scripting PVP and scripting IDOCs?  Subscribed users continue to play and script, every day, so exactly who is getting banned?

There is no consequence for subscribed users therefore EJ does not enable scripting.

If anything, from the actions I've seen and the forums posts I've read, EJ users have it harder than subscribed users, because...  EJ users actually get banned when they're caught - which I applaud.

It's literally the direct opposite of what you believe.

We're stunting growth and preventing potential positive changes because "we can't do that because bots."

I think this is a matter of opinion.  While it seems that way I assume the list they come out with about accounts being actioned disputes at least some of that.  And if they’re all EJ accounts doesn’t that prove my point?

 Why risk it at all when you can farm with 3 or 4 bots down in fan dancer dojo or wherever it is these days.

Some things they just have no option to use accounts but I guarantee it’s probably not their main account.  

Does scripting occur on regular accounts?  Yeah.  I know it does. Are people farming random things on regular accounts?  No.

I agree with your last statement.  We often shoot our selves in the foot because some players are so worried about scripting.  Every single time it happens anyways but usually at some detriment to the regular players.

Oreogl

Grimbeard said:

IF any ej accounts were actually new/returning players I might be more supportive..but we all know that's not the case 

I know some that are, and I’ve been one of them.  I don’t think we should be entirely restrictive of them.  Some things could be changed to benefit both aspects of this.

No idea if EM drops are given to EJ but things like roof could be changed.

Oreogl

Riner said:

JackFlashUk said:

No,  you want it, you pay like the rest of us

my opinion, EL should be stuck in Haven and NEVER be allowed to partake in any events or travel

too much abuse of the game due to EJ, scripting cheating etc

NO privileges at all

I don't care if EJ players are offended

PAY YOUR WAY

Its should be for players how are curious and want to try the game out, before ether sub, it should not be a free ticket to play the game

Go to a free shard if you don't like it

At least, thats how I see it

         Completely agree that there is no logical reason to allow such freedom for EJ accounts. Having the limit of Haven would give the ability to experience the games machines without any of the benefits of paid accounts. I would also suggest that EJ accounts have all skills cap'ed at 100. There is no reason that a free account should have the same level of abilities as paid accounts. 

@ Pawain I have no hate for EJ players however, I do recognize when something is more of a determent to Ultima Online than a benefit.

          It's true that these changes would mean that the choice to pay for the privilege of experiencing the rest of this realm would have to be made sooner, it is also true that this means everyone contributes to the health of this game to the same degree by paying for a subscription if they wish to move an account out of Haven, 

What exactly is the detriment here?

Even if they’re scripting, let’s discuss what impact that has.  And then discuss what the difference of having a paid account would be.

yeah, some (if not most) script, some probably for RMT but to Sibbles point there are those who do the same with paid accounts.

Urge

One of the main problems is that an EJ account can be fully functional without a master account and registered using a completely FAKE email. 

sibble

A very simple solution to EJ bot detection is to run a periodic script that checks for if multiple EJ characters are within X, Y, Z of each other and alert a GM to investigate.  This is quite doable.

By the way, I had to install Firefox at home just to post on the forum.

Pawain

sibble said:

A very simple solution to EJ bot detection is to run a periodic script that checks for if multiple EJ characters are within X, Y, Z of each other and alert a GM to investigate.  This is quite doable.

By the way, I had to install Firefox at home just to post on the forum.

Thank you.  Mesanna and my Firefox stock went up today!

Firefox is a private company.  but conspiracy anyway!

Oreogl

Urge said:

One of the main problems is that an EJ account can be fully functional without a master account and registered using a completely FAKE email. 

Sure that could be a problem but was is the end result?  Someone scripting in a 25 year old game?  And what happens there?

username

Did you know that for a low low price of a monthly sub, EJs too can have unfettered banking access?

Victim_Of_Siege

username said:

Did you know that for a low low price of a monthly sub, EJs too can have unfettered banking access?

The Token is far cheaper, but a full Sub works as well

Oreogl

username said:

Did you know that for a low low price of a monthly sub, EJs too can have unfettered banking access?

This isn’t without irony since you seem to be one of the biggest critics of the game.

I don’t think they need the same access as paid subs, but returning vets should be able to access all their items until they’re below cap, then have the same current caps apply.

MacroPlanet

Oreogl said:

username said:

Did you know that for a low low price of a monthly sub, EJs too can have unfettered banking access?

This isn’t without irony since you seem to be one of the biggest critics of the game.

I don’t think they need the same access as paid subs, but returning vets should be able to access all their items until they’re below cap, then have the same current caps apply.

Agreed. While the rest of the account lock access makes sense, such as housing not being available on EJ accounts, the banking restrictions don't. Especially for returning vets who get frustrated because they can't see or access their banked items. I've seen multiple instances where they end up leaving because of this.

I’ve emailed Bonnie about it, though I’m not expecting much to change. I just wanted to share my idea with the community and revisit the issue.

JackFlashUk

MacroPlanet said:

Oreogl said:

username said:

Did you know that for a low low price of a monthly sub, EJs too can have unfettered banking access?

This isn’t without irony since you seem to be one of the biggest critics of the game.

I don’t think they need the same access as paid subs, but returning vets should be able to access all their items until they’re below cap, then have the same current caps apply.

Agreed. While the rest of the account lock access makes sense, such as housing not being available on EJ accounts, the banking restrictions don't. Especially for returning vets 

No need to read further

Returning vets can pay their subs cant they


ITS BS

EJ should have NO RIGHTS whatsoever
and 100% should NOT impact on MY PAID GAMEPLAY

So if anything they should have NO bank privileges, no travel, no life, NOTHING

You want it? you PAY for it like the rest of us

Anyone arguing otherwise wants to abuse the game and get away with it

Within a week you know whether you want to pursue a career in the game or what to re sub

Arrive at HAVEN, stay there. 

You want to leave

PAY YOUR SUBS

keven2002

EJs don't even need to pay their subs to access their banks - it's a one time fee of like 300 (maybe 500?) sovereigns from the UO store (anyone can do this - EJ or Paid) to get 30 days of bank access. So basically for the cost of a large soda from the convenience store ($3) you get access to your entire bank box for 30 days (the soda might last an hour if you drink slow). 

I think the notion of giving EJ accounts more (for free) while the paying customer base doesn't really get anything additional (ie new content for paid subs only) is ironic.. it doesn't really seem like a successful business model lol. 

If you aren't willing to pay $3 to access your bank account then I doubt you are willing to spend $10-13 on a monthly subscription and isn't that kind of what the argument is here (well if I can't access my bank as a vet I don't know if I want to subscribe)?