Treasures of Feudal Lands (Shogun) Event - Recap

Pawain

Merlin said:

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered.   These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.   Yeah sure, I see new players say “oh this is great I can finally get something nice very quickly ”, isn’t particularly what veteran players who have put in the work of running Exodus, the Roof and other content want to hear.   While it may have been good idea for short term, I think it does more harm than good in the long term. “Penny wise, but pound foolish” I believe is the old phrase?   I fully understand there is a delicate balance here and the developers obviously want to make rewards lists worth while for participation, but I maintain those two items in particular are really quite imbalanced versus what you can get from the loot table. 

          

So the two armor items that do not have Mana Regeneration are OP?  Maybe allowing Mana Leech on melee weapons is what is OP.  I can not use those on my Bard I take to community hunts.  He needs MR to maintain songs with a large party.

popps

Merlin said:

Overall, thought this was a decent event.   In terms of drop numbers, I was averaging 50-60 drops each night the first month of the event. Generally playing in the Winter Spur icy area, using a sampire with 800ish luck, always using a potion of glorious fortune.   Play time was generally later in the evening (after midnight EST) on Atlantic.   Later on in the event, the variation of the number of drops I would get widened where by some evening I would get 35-40 drops, and other nights I would eclipse 70.   8 week time frame was perfect – a month would have been too short, any more would have been too long.         

While I mostly played my sampire, I had some success mixing it up with archers, throwers and my paladin.  Generally did best with sampire, but definitely competitive on my archer as well.  No scripts needed in order to have fun.  However, there were a few nights where competing with the bots made it really quite difficult to play on a ranged character and do well since the bots would cover quite a bit of territory.        

The spawn was fun and challenging.  However, the general openness of the ice area is what led to the bot problem at this event being significantly worse than others.  I’ve never seen so many bot trains.  They would camp multiple spots.  Worse yet, there were a few nights when trolls were blocking entrances by dropping hundreds of impassable items in front of the caves… and then randomly casting gates that would lead to dungeons where there would be an instant death (usually Covetous).   While trolling and that type of negative activity has always been present in this game, this event saw it in a way where it was organized to really give honest players a hard time.  This generally was at its worst during the middle of the event but died down the last few weeks.  Devs still need to come up with a better answer for this.       

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered.   These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.   Yeah sure, I see new players say “oh this is great I can finally get something nice very quickly ”, isn’t particularly what veteran players who have put in the work of running Exodus, the Roof and other content want to hear.   While it may have been good idea for short term, I think it does more harm than good in the long term. “Penny wise, but pound foolish” I believe is the old phrase?   I fully understand there is a delicate balance here and the developers obviously want to make rewards lists worth while for participation, but I maintain those two items in particular are really quite imbalanced versus what you can get from the loot table. 

          

That aside, the rewards list of this event was probably one of the better ones. Included good mix (Deco, titles, lore pages, weapons, gear), some nice items in slots that needed some love like the sashes and cloaks.  Gave a lot for collectors to go after.  I especially like the concept of the sash and cloak having randomized stat and eater.  That was a nice change up.  

These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.

I think otherwise.

UO is a game of numbers... sure, players' skills also matter but having good items with good properties is fundamental, to my opinion.

Now, the way I see it, this puts new or returning players lacking good items to a huge disadvantage versus veteran players who often, not only have the best items, but also might have high financial means in the game...

So, I see these Events which introduce high end Rewards very, very important for new or returning players to "catch up with" veteran players and be able to finally be competitive...

Bottom line is, I think it important and a good thing that the Developers, with these Events, introduce high end items for new or returning players to earn on their own and be able to use to finally become competitive with veteran players.

Cookie

Agree with Popps.
I don't think Vets really matter much in this equation.
We already have everything. 
New Artifact styles, are equally welcome for us, especially those who detest the pvm loot style.
(Me.    My character progression has been delayed by 10-15 years because of this insane pvm loot style.
Bring back Crafting, and Artifact equipment styles please. PvM should be for ingredients/recipies, not armour.

username

Merlin said:

The spawn was fun and challenging.  However, the general openness of the ice area is what led to the bot problem at this event being significantly worse than others.  I’ve never seen so many bot trains.  They would camp multiple spots.  Worse yet, there were a few nights when trolls were blocking entrances by dropping hundreds of impassable items in front of the caves… and then randomly casting gates that would lead to dungeons where there would be an instant death (usually Covetous).   While trolling and that type of negative activity has always been present in this game, this event saw it in a way where it was organized to really give honest players a hard time.  This generally was at its worst during the middle of the event but died down the last few weeks.  Devs still need to come up with a better answer for this.       

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered.   These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.   Yeah sure, I see new players say “oh this is great I can finally get something nice very quickly ”, isn’t particularly what veteran players who have put in the work of running Exodus, the Roof and other content want to hear.   While it may have been good idea for short term, I think it does more harm than good in the long term. “Penny wise, but pound foolish” I believe is the old phrase?   I fully understand there is a delicate balance here and the developers obviously want to make rewards lists worth while for participation, but I maintain those two items in particular are really quite imbalanced versus what you can get from the loot table. 

I prefer the open-style event but that has NOTHING to do with the bot problem. As Mesanna and Co. refuse to do anything about the third party client proliferation, it will just get worse, and this is the main driving factor. You can see me complain about this for years (check my post history). The fact is that each ToT is a massive payday for these cheat players so it gets worse. Ironically, at the same time, they're shooting themselves in the feet as everything is so abundant across almost every shard now so the bots are multiplying (the second driving factor) to retain profits with slimmer margins.

The main point of these ToTs are exactly that: release a bunch of OP gear to appease the masses for the lack of content they've provided us while working on the other game for the last 5 years. They care not about game balance or anything else, their main goal is for players to do a, "OOH LOOK ANOTHER SHINEY!" and then forget about the complete neglect this game has gotten.

Realistically, account-bound would solve the majority of this, but the nay-sayers *COUGH* BOTS *COUGH* that will post on these forums will say otherwise.

Venom

I personally enjoyed it. I've been an on- and off-player for years, with this being the first such event I was able to get rewards due to not having the same time constraints. I felt the rewards were overall fairly priced and obtainable for someone who can't commit hours upon hours to the game. 

I do hope - and I'm guessing not all will agree - that they can bring back some chances at getting rewards from before -- like the wildfire mask and corrupted  paladin arms. I can see arguments against it, as it will cheapen them. However, on Catskills, I can't find the mask or arms in a way that is obtainable for a player like me. To be clear, I do not think they need to alter UO around my time constraints. Those who are able to play a ton should be enabled by that. 

Is there any information on the next event like this?

Thanks,
Venom

Merlin

popps said:

Merlin said:

Overall, thought this was a decent event.   In terms of drop numbers, I was averaging 50-60 drops each night the first month of the event. Generally playing in the Winter Spur icy area, using a sampire with 800ish luck, always using a potion of glorious fortune.   Play time was generally later in the evening (after midnight EST) on Atlantic.   Later on in the event, the variation of the number of drops I would get widened where by some evening I would get 35-40 drops, and other nights I would eclipse 70.   8 week time frame was perfect – a month would have been too short, any more would have been too long.         

While I mostly played my sampire, I had some success mixing it up with archers, throwers and my paladin.  Generally did best with sampire, but definitely competitive on my archer as well.  No scripts needed in order to have fun.  However, there were a few nights where competing with the bots made it really quite difficult to play on a ranged character and do well since the bots would cover quite a bit of territory.        

The spawn was fun and challenging.  However, the general openness of the ice area is what led to the bot problem at this event being significantly worse than others.  I’ve never seen so many bot trains.  They would camp multiple spots.  Worse yet, there were a few nights when trolls were blocking entrances by dropping hundreds of impassable items in front of the caves… and then randomly casting gates that would lead to dungeons where there would be an instant death (usually Covetous).   While trolling and that type of negative activity has always been present in this game, this event saw it in a way where it was organized to really give honest players a hard time.  This generally was at its worst during the middle of the event but died down the last few weeks.  Devs still need to come up with a better answer for this.       

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered. 

I think otherwise.

UO is a game of numbers... sure, players' skills also matter but having good items with good properties is fundamental, to my opinion.

Now, the way I see it, this puts new or returning players lacking good items to a huge disadvantage versus veteran players who often, not only have the best items, but also might have high financial means in the game...

So, I see these Events which introduce high end Rewards very, very important for new or returning players to "catch up with" veteran players and be able to finally be competitive...

Bottom line is, I think it important and a good thing that the Developers, with these Events, introduce high end items for new or returning players to earn on their own and be able to use to finally become competitive with veteran players.

The best geared sampires from 10 years ago would only be mid-tier sampires today with how far along gear has come.   Power creep in Ultima has been fairly significant.

 

My point being:  new players do not require the best of the best gear in order to be competitive and have a good character that can complete the majority of content after only one event.    They can do plenty fine with mid-level gear.  It’s an insult to veterans that have been grinding content for literally decades to see their advantages lost after only one event.   

 

And to be clear – that’s not to say good rewards shouldn’t be offered.  But the two rewards I highlighted were particularly over powered.  New Players don't require Tier 1 gear to be happy.  There needs to be balance, and this wasn’t it.

Cookie said:

Agree with Popps.
I don't think Vets really matter much in this equation.
We already have everything. 
New Artifact styles, are equally welcome for us, especially those who detest the pvm loot style.
(Me.    My character progression has been delayed by 10-15 years because of this insane pvm loot style.
Bring back Crafting, and Artifact equipment styles please. PvM should be for ingredients/recipies, not armour.

My concern here is the 'vets don't matter' comment.  This is a 25+ year old game.  It is being sustained by the veterans who've been here forever and likely will stay until the lights close.  There are not enough new players to sustain the game.   That's not to say efforts shouldn't be made to hook new players into staying, but offering overpowered gear does more damage in the long term to the opinions of the vets who matter than the new players that might not be around in a few months.

I do agree on the Crafting point.  Hopefully that is something taken into consideration for New Legacy. 

username said:

Merlin said:

The spawn was fun and challenging.  However, the general openness of the ice area is what led to the bot problem at this event being significantly worse than others.  I’ve never seen so many bot trains.  They would camp multiple spots.  Worse yet, there were a few nights when trolls were blocking entrances by dropping hundreds of impassable items in front of the caves… and then randomly casting gates that would lead to dungeons where there would be an instant death (usually Covetous).   While trolling and that type of negative activity has always been present in this game, this event saw it in a way where it was organized to really give honest players a hard time.  This generally was at its worst during the middle of the event but died down the last few weeks.  Devs still need to come up with a better answer for this.       

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered.   These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.   Yeah sure, I see new players say “oh this is great I can finally get something nice very quickly ”, isn’t particularly what veteran players who have put in the work of running Exodus, the Roof and other content want to hear.   While it may have been good idea for short term, I think it does more harm than good in the long term. “Penny wise, but pound foolish” I believe is the old phrase?   I fully understand there is a delicate balance here and the developers obviously want to make rewards lists worth while for participation, but I maintain those two items in particular are really quite imbalanced versus what you can get from the loot table. 

I prefer the open-style event but that has NOTHING to do with the bot problem. As Mesanna and Co. refuse to do anything about the third party client proliferation, it will just get worse, and this is the main driving factor. You can see me complain about this for years (check my post history). The fact is that each ToT is a massive payday for these cheat players so it gets worse. Ironically, at the same time, they're shooting themselves in the feet as everything is so abundant across almost every shard now so the bots are multiplying (the second driving factor) to retain profits with slimmer margins.

The main point of these ToTs are exactly that: release a bunch of OP gear to appease the masses for the lack of content they've provided us while working on the other game for the last 5 years. They care not about game balance or anything else, their main goal is for players to do a, "OOH LOOK ANOTHER SHINEY!" and then forget about the complete neglect this game has gotten.

Realistically, account-bound would solve the majority of this, but the nay-sayers *COUGH* BOTS *COUGH* that will post on these forums will say otherwise.

Bots were definitely worse in this event than some of the others. I do think Terrain has some impact on that, but I hear your point.   With no GMs on late at night and no action being taken after multiple events of this happening, it is perceived amongst the community that the developers have given de facto acceptance of this behavior.  I won't speculate beyond that, but it's certain disheartening.

popps

Merlin said:

popps said:

I think otherwise.

UO is a game of numbers... sure, players' skills also matter but having good items with good properties is fundamental, to my opinion.

Now, the way I see it, this puts new or returning players lacking good items to a huge disadvantage versus veteran players who often, not only have the best items, but also might have high financial means in the game...

So, I see these Events which introduce high end Rewards very, very important for new or returning players to "catch up with" veteran players and be able to finally be competitive...

Bottom line is, I think it important and a good thing that the Developers, with these Events, introduce high end items for new or returning players to earn on their own and be able to use to finally become competitive with veteran players.

The best geared sampires from 10 years ago would only be mid-tier sampires today with how far along gear has come.   Power creep in Ultima has been fairly significant.

 

My point being:  new players do not require the best of the best gear in order to be competitive and have a good character that can complete the majority of content after only one event.    They can do plenty fine with mid-level gear.  It’s an insult to veterans that have been grinding content for literally decades to see their advantages lost after only one event.   

 

And to be clear – that’s not to say good rewards shouldn’t be offered.  But the two rewards I highlighted were particularly over powered.  New Players don't require Tier 1 gear to be happy.  There needs to be balance, and this wasn’t it.

Cookie said:

Agree with Popps.
I don't think Vets really matter much in this equation.
We already have everything. 
New Artifact styles, are equally welcome for us, especially those who detest the pvm loot style.
(Me.    My character progression has been delayed by 10-15 years because of this insane pvm loot style.
Bring back Crafting, and Artifact equipment styles please. PvM should be for ingredients/recipies, not armour.

My concern here is the 'vets don't matter' comment.  This is a 25+ year old game.  It is being sustained by the veterans who've been here forever and likely will stay until the lights close.  There are not enough new players to sustain the game.   That's not to say efforts shouldn't be made to hook new players into staying, but offering overpowered gear does more damage in the long term to the opinions of the vets who matter than the new players that might not be around in a few months.

I do agree on the Crafting point.  Hopefully that is something taken into consideration for New Legacy. 

username said:

Merlin said:

The spawn was fun and challenging.  However, the general openness of the ice area is what led to the bot problem at this event being significantly worse than others.  I’ve never seen so many bot trains.  They would camp multiple spots.  Worse yet, there were a few nights when trolls were blocking entrances by dropping hundreds of impassable items in front of the caves… and then randomly casting gates that would lead to dungeons where there would be an instant death (usually Covetous).   While trolling and that type of negative activity has always been present in this game, this event saw it in a way where it was organized to really give honest players a hard time.  This generally was at its worst during the middle of the event but died down the last few weeks.  Devs still need to come up with a better answer for this.       

My main gripe, as I venting during the testing phase, was with the couple rewards that were OP.   Two items in particular, the mempo and the warrior gloves, were way over powered.   These items basically are going to negate the years of work others have put in to get decent items in those slots.   Yeah sure, I see new players say “oh this is great I can finally get something nice very quickly ”, isn’t particularly what veteran players who have put in the work of running Exodus, the Roof and other content want to hear.   While it may have been good idea for short term, I think it does more harm than good in the long term. “Penny wise, but pound foolish” I believe is the old phrase?   I fully understand there is a delicate balance here and the developers obviously want to make rewards lists worth while for participation, but I maintain those two items in particular are really quite imbalanced versus what you can get from the loot table. 

I prefer the open-style event but that has NOTHING to do with the bot problem. As Mesanna and Co. refuse to do anything about the third party client proliferation, it will just get worse, and this is the main driving factor. You can see me complain about this for years (check my post history). The fact is that each ToT is a massive payday for these cheat players so it gets worse. Ironically, at the same time, they're shooting themselves in the feet as everything is so abundant across almost every shard now so the bots are multiplying (the second driving factor) to retain profits with slimmer margins.

The main point of these ToTs are exactly that: release a bunch of OP gear to appease the masses for the lack of content they've provided us while working on the other game for the last 5 years. They care not about game balance or anything else, their main goal is for players to do a, "OOH LOOK ANOTHER SHINEY!" and then forget about the complete neglect this game has gotten.

Realistically, account-bound would solve the majority of this, but the nay-sayers *COUGH* BOTS *COUGH* that will post on these forums will say otherwise.

Bots were definitely worse in this event than some of the others. I do think Terrain has some impact on that, but I hear your point.   With no GMs on late at night and no action being taken after multiple events of this happening, it is perceived amongst the community that the developers have given de facto acceptance of this behavior.  I won't speculate beyond that, but it's certain disheartening.

It is being sustained by the veterans who've been here forever and likely will stay until the lights close.

I am sorry, but I need to disagree...I am of the opinion that a game that has high end gear that takes years or even decades to be obtained by players can only deter new or returning players to join the game....

There may not be that many new players (but occasionally some appear to show up and, hopefully, this might get better with UO Legacy when it will come live...) but players returning to UO are quite a few but if they have to face years and years of playing to be competitive with Veteran players, how long would they stay with UO when they were to realize the low odds through regular gameplay, without the Rewards from these Events, of getting high end gear to be competitive with Veteran players ?

The high end Rewards offered with these Events are a way to help out new or returning players to not have to face too much a daunting task of years and years to get high end gear that would permit them to be competitive with Veteran players.

CovenantX

Merlin said:

Bots were definitely worse in this event than some of the others. I do think Terrain has some impact on that, but I hear your point.   With no GMs on late at night and no action being taken after multiple events of this happening, it is perceived amongst the community that the developers have given de facto acceptance of this behavior.  I won't speculate beyond that, but it's certain disheartening.

  I dunno if the bots were worse, certainly not better, I feel like bots were just easier for most players to spot..  The last couple ToT events there weren't really any 'hot-spots' to farm, so there were more bots & players moving around. as opposed to 10-20 people+bots mixed in camping in the same room where it may look less obvious to most players.

   Maybe, if Mesanna wasn't full of **** when she said third-party cheats were detectable, they could do something like the EJ system where it'll disconnect you with more than 1 account under the same IP address being detected with illegal client use, just prevent logins with illegal clients, at least limit the cheating to one account/IP, the damage would be a hell of a lot more manageable, which would make the game's content last longer before it becomes outdated and worthless.    -I mean, it's clear if cheating is detectable, that they don't want to out-right ban cheaters... not sure why, they've already collected the game-time $ at that point.

 Bots have caused the global loot system to be almost as worthless as the old loot system was when it was in need of an update, because everything that's "good" (the bar that decides what's good/bad, has risen so much because of illegitimately farmed loot) is so rare or even impossible (No-name Items) to find, only the people that ran several bots has the no-longer-spawning gear to sell to the people who actually play legitimately.

 Not to mention the garbage you run into in pvp... which should be an even greater reason to do everything in power to curb cheating, because you can't pvp without interacting with cheaters for the most part, Regardless if they're utilizing all the "features" or not.

realistically, how many years of putting up with this are left?   it's gotten noticeably worse basically overnight when EJ came out, though it was still pretty bad before that.  now it's just ridiculous.