Question about slayers and damage
Suppose you equip one of those talismans with demon slayer on it, and also equip a demon slayer weapon, will both of them stack with one another? Googling this tends to turn up lots of discussion about previous talismans that have different slayer properties than weapons.
Comments
Super slayers usually benefit from a stack unless you are using honor / EoO (for additional damage) because it's hard to hit the damage cap of 300% without it. For the non-super slayers (like Dragon slayer) they start with a 200% damage increase so applying tactics / etc should be enough to get you to the 300% cap without an additional slayer.
The answer is yes, for PvM melee damage, as of a year ago. I don't believe anything has changed with the damage calculations in the last year.
Tactics and Modifier are factored in completely separate portions of the damage calculation. As such, they do not interact with each other's "caps".
Here is a simple diagram as explanation:
If you'd like additional discussion about how damage is calculated, see this thread:
Melee Damage Calculation Diagram - Ultima Online Forums (uo.com)
Keep in mind that Base Modifier is always 100 and that one Modifier will always be calculated proportionally, so you do not need 200% optional to get to the 300% cap. For a discussion of how modifiers are actually being calculated, see this thread:
Damage Modifiers beyond the first are being calculated proportionally rather than additively. - Ultima Online Forums (uo.com)
--Good luck!
So if I'm reading things correctly: If I equip a demon slayer talisman and a demon slayer weapon, then against demons Bushido perfection won't increase my damage any further since I'll already be at the 200% optional modifier cap? Because I'm okay with that, the talisman is obviously much more flexible.
I would test it to make sure. Equip both the tali and weapon, then use Perfection and see what happens. From what I saw in my testing, you should not see any additional damage from Perfection in this specific situation.
Keep in mind I did all this testing myself. I may have made a mistake. Things may have been altered behind the scenes since I was doing all my testing and posts. There may be some edge case that's different.
That's going to be situation dependent. Damage Increase is capped at 100%, so if:
Damage Increase:
40% Weapon
58% Bard Buff
98% Total
No need for Damage Increase 100% on your weapon in this case. Although Damage Increase 42% on the weapon would put you at the Damage Increase 100% cap.
42% Weapon
58% Bard Buff
100% Total
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Your gear requirements are really going to depend on how you're playing and the specific encounter you're interacting with. You don't need Damage Increase 100% on a Paladin's weapon, if you can find it on Shields, or Jewelry, or from other buffs (i.e. Divine Fury is Damage Increase 20%).
Ah, ok. Well, the answer is basically going to be the same. What you're using is going to depend on the encounter and how you're playing that encounter.
If you are using Armor Ignore, elemental damage is irrelevant.
In any other case, does the opponent still have resistance or have you zeroed it out with Bard Debuffs, Onslought, etc.? If the opponent still has resistance, can you keep Consecrate Weapon running? Does the mana use from casting CW interfere with chaining special moves? If you can chain specials with CW, why bother with an elemental weapon?
If you can't use, or don't want to use Consecrate Weapon, then the correct elemental weapon will produce more damage for you over time.
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For reference, I get tired of casting CW, and the mana use from it, so I've begun building specific elemental damage weapons for specific creatures. However, for general adventuring, all of my weapons are 100% Physical.
So if you have maxxed out your 2 damage types, and a Mob has 80 phy resist and 60 cold resist.
A cold damage weapon will do more damage than a physical damage one.
What type demon is the OP using the weapon on, I assume DF. I thought everyone just used 1 demon item while fighting him. It gives the 200%.
We've had this conversation before. The Modifier Base is calculated with the Modifier % to achieve the double or triple damage. Demon Slayer gives Modifier 100% to achieve double (x2) damage.
Double Damage:
Triple Damage:
What Lord_Nythrax was asking is can you use 2 Demon Slayers (which are Super Slayers) to get Modifier 300% (x3 or Triple Damage). As shown in my first post above, the answer is yes, with caveats.
Grim is asking if he has a 100% physical weapon and all the damage bonus max, is that maximum damage to a Mob.
I was trying to say that your damage to the Mob is determined at the very end, if a Mob has 80 Phy resist and 60 cold resist. The 100% cold weapon will do more damage than a 100% Physical weapon to that Mob. No matter what your damage bonus's are if under equal circumstance.
So yes, he needs to use a weapon that matches a Mobs resists to do the most damage.
Also using EoO will get max damage instead of 2 worn super slayers.
I don't think the OP has Chivalry tho, if he does then that changes what he needs for max damage.
Chivalry has advantages over not having it. I put it on all my warriors when it came out.
It is replacing the property not adding another.
Reforge first and you have the whole amount of points unless the reforge adds another property.
But if you get 80 cold on the weapon and want to enhance with Shadow iron to make it 100. You do that last because it adds points.
Are they "single" Slayers that do the 300% damage, thus making it pointless to also have 100% Damage Increase, or are they "super" slayers and, thus, only do 200% thus making it necessary to either also have additional 100% Damage Increase, or run Perfection in order to reach the 300% damage CAP ?
Thanks.
Then at 120 Chiv, CW fills up another 15% DI so total 97% DI with Eoo and spamming CW. Ofcourse besides that CW target weakest resist.
CW vs 100% Ele
My opinion is sometimes CW is better because not every monster of same type has the same lowest resist.
Say resist of 35% to 55%, u won't know the current spawn is at which end of that range. So I do notice sometimes CW has slightly better damage against certain monsters. That is I do cast CW even when using 100% ele axe to test if there is better damage besides 15% DI. I did this when solo paragons during tot.
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
Increase and Modifier are two separate parts of the Damage Calculation.
Damage Increase is factored in the Increase portion of the calculation. Slayers are Modifier, which is factored in the Modifier portion of the Damage Calculation.
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From the uo.com wiki (I have not tested these myself), the Eodon slayers you're asking about are giving double damage, making them Super Slayers (100% Modifier):
But then, if one uses 2 of these double slayer damage, for example one on the suit, and the other on a spellbook or on the weapon, then they would stack and work together for 300% damage without the need to have 100% base Damage Increase ?
Did I get it right ?
1. All of this is for melee damage. It has nothing to do with spellbooks. Spellbooks are a whole other thing.
2. I assume that when you say "100% Base Damage Increase" you mean Modifier Base 100%. You will always have Modifier Base 100%, you cannot adjust it. (Again, Increase and Modifier are two separate things, don't mix them up.)
3. In theory, Dinosaur Slayer (Modifier 100%) on your suit would stack with Dinosaur Slayer (Modifier 100%) on your weapon to give you Modifier 200% against Dinosaurs.
If it did stack, it would look like this:
However, I have not tested this. Modifier on a suit might not behave in the same manner as Modifier on a talisman. Therefore, Modifier on a suit might not stack with Modifier on a talisman.
This is the part where how modifiers are actually calculated comes in. Here is the thread (again) discussing that behavior:
Damage Modifiers beyond the first are being calculated proportionally rather than additively. - Ultima Online Forums (uo.com)
I just logged in and tested this on Test Center this morning (10/08/2023) and the behavior is still the same. The problem we as players are running into, is that we are thinking of modifiers as a simple addition of percentages, but that's not the way Modifier is actually being calculated.
From my testing this morning:
Reptile Slayer + EoO is the same as Lizardmen Slayer is the same as Lizardmen Slayer + EoO
Any of the three setups will put you at the Modifier 300% Cap.
Modifier cap is still 300% (Base + Optional), but you can get there much, much easier than players have believed.
In fact, if you only have Chivalry 84 you will cast EoO at 50%, which if combined with a Super Slayer (Modifier 100%) will also put you at the Modifier 300% cap.
Reptile Slayer + EoO (50%) is the same as Lizardmen Slayer is the same as Lizardmen Slayer + EoO (50%)
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As I have said to popps, don't conflate Damage Increase and Modifier. Consecrate Weapon gives Modifier 15%.
I agree that you may notice more damage being done with CW because CW is also directing all damage to the targets lowest resist, every strike, for every creature.
For example the Deceit event that was last year (wow - we haven't actually had a treasure event this year yet) I'd usually run with a poison element weapon (+200% to the cap) with an undead tally (+100% to cap) or if I saw a lich lord paragon (or lich) then I'd switch to an undead weapon. That covered most of the hard stuff I'd need to kill.
Grapes of Wrath is Increase, not Modifier. If you have Damage Increase 100% and Modifier 300%, Grapes of Wrath would not do anything.
However, if you had Damage Increase 40% and Modifier 300%, Grapes of Wrath would add 35% to your Damage Increase, giving you a total of Damage Increase 75% and Modifier 300%.
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Beyond that, if you have Anatomy, Lumberjacking, Tactics, and Strength Maximized, Damage Increase 100%, and Modifier 300%, you can still do even more damage through the use of: Armor Pierce, Evil Omen, and Lightning Strike Critical Hits (and possibly Counter Attack).
Yes, I am aware that Talismans only affect dexers' damage, not that of spellcasters but my question is more about the Suits which, as a set, come with a Slayer...
For Eodon, for example, Dinosaur and Myrmidex Slayers can come from a Suit set.
Yet, there is also Spellbooks which have the Dinosaur and Myrmidex Slayers.
Question is, for a Spellcaster who is keeping in hand a spellbook with the Dinosaur/Myrmidex Slayer and is also wearing the Suit set with the same Slayer, do the 2 Slayer stack when casting spells ?
Also, does that work for all spells, Magery, Ninjitsu, Mysticism, Spellweaving, etc etc., or do these Slayers, whether on the Suit sets or on a Spellbook only work for "some" spells, not others ?
Thanks for the clarification.