[UO.Com] Exploiting Game Mechanics

Pawain

https://uo.com/2023/04/04/exploiting-game-mechanics/

Yoshi

“Says this is and always has been a rule..
take it it was an unwritten rule.
Not worth the paper it’s written on as the saying goes”

drcossack

@Mesanna then feel free to tell us WHERE this completely made up rule was documented.

Pawain

Yall are smart enough to do a Google Search.

I like this one.

24. You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Broadsword Online Games in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Like casting area spells on our Bunnies.

Grimbeard

If people are actively try to steal kills just use a goo pet

drcossack

Pawain said:

Yall are smart enough to do a Google Search.

I like this one.

24. You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Broadsword Online Games in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Like casting area spells on our Bunnies.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had the authority to speak for Mesanna.  And, if you're going to talk interfering with others, perhaps we should talk about the people who used summons when I was farming the bunnies.  You're not the only one that can come up with completely asinine arguments.

Pawain

drcossack said:

Pawain said:

Yall are smart enough to do a Google Search.

I like this one.

24. You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Broadsword Online Games in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Like casting area spells on our Bunnies.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had the authority to speak for Mesanna.  And, if you're going to talk interfering with others, perhaps we should talk about the people who used summons when I was farming the bunnies.  You're not the only one that can come up with completely asinine arguments.

Page on them if they interfered with your ability to to enjoy playing.

I don't use summons, was not me bothering you.  Fear the Dollar!

keven2002

Pawain said:

Yall are smart enough to do a Google Search.

I like this one.

24. You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Broadsword Online Games in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Like casting area spells on our Bunnies.

I did a search and couldn't find anything in the TOS that says what she posted. According to that link then technically people shouldn't be energy fielding in monsters either right? Technically energy fielding star room so people can't get through should be illegal too right? My sampire not having teleport abilities is the same as the rabbit not having magic.

It's crazy to think that people who are using bag balls to help prevent a tiny rabbit off screen are being banned whereas the rampant 3rd party usage over in Fel Yew goes untouched or the multiboxing at EM events goes ignored. I could see if this was actually effecting someone else but for a player who is out in a field somewhere in the middle of nowhere minding their business this is a bit much.

Side note on item # 24 above... some Trammies seem to get this confused. Players do NOT own spawns / mobs. Just because it's in Tram doesn't mean that someone attacking their rabbit spawn isn't against the rules. If you all didn't want to interact with others then go find a private server where only your friends have access. This is like someone at the old Cu spawn trying to report people who tame something they want... is it against an unspoken gentleman's agreement? Sure but it's not against any rules.

Mariah

The practice, commonly known as 'blocking', has always been against the rules. When abused it has a significant impact in pvp situations. There have been many, many discussions on the topic in various forums over the years, most notably the old 'factions' forum on Stratics.

keven2002

Mariah said:

The practice, commonly known as 'blocking', has always been against the rules. When abused it has a significant impact in pvp situations. There have been many, many discussions on the topic in various forums over the years, most notably the old 'factions' forum on Stratics.

Can you show me where in the "rules" it says this? I couldn't find it.

I understand what you are saying and get the premise yet people wall off star room in ATL every single day to block people in who are coming from a spawn. They are fine to do this to take players scrolls but heavens forbid if someone is in a field minding their own business?

I'm not saying I have a problem with the "rule"; I have a problem with the selective enforcement of this rule, along with others that I feel are bigger more important rules that are broken every day (3rd party clients) yet staff turns a blind eye. The client "rule" has also always been a rule yet Mesanna will never post on that like she did about "blocking".... why is that? Rules are rules, right?

Whitewolf

they are taking a rule the was designed to prevent player from trapping players and reinterpreting  so it fits their agenda, by making yourself a little square to summon your little rabbit in is no way preventing others from enjoying the game its not preventing others from moving its not trapping other players, but that ToS policy they are using to enforce their will.

Petra_Fyde

I don't know where it's written, but it has been in force for a very long time. I vividly remember as a very new player being taken to task by a Stratics moderator,, soon after I started posting there, for suggesting that I might train discord by luring a mob to the cliff edge and disco'ing it from a boat.

People have also had their accounts actioned by trapping mobs in houses to train on them. I'm sure there are a few here who could confirm that has happened? 

Blocking is against the rules, both in Tram and Fel.

JohnKnighthawke

She's correct that this has always been a rule in UO. Those of you who are saying that you need to be shown this situation, specifically, in UO's rules, are being disingenuous, and you know it. It's rather like those people who find an exploit or dupe of some kind and claim they thought it was OK to do if the game allowed you to do it.

I'm honestly not even sure where the rules are anymore. Is it this?

https://uo.com/2012/09/10/tickets-for-customer-support/

If so I don't see anything specifically against scripting or multi-boxing but we all know those are not allowed. (There's probably something in there that applies but the point is that folks can, and do, try to assert otherwise.)

She's incorrect to say it's "always" been the case, though. Bizarrely they've allowed exceptions on occasion. I don't understand why they did so, because it just confused the issue.

Tyrath

Petra_Fyde said:

I don't know where it's written, but it has been in force for a very long time. I vividly remember as a very new player being taken to task by a Stratics moderator,, soon after I started posting there, for suggesting that I might train discord by luring a mob to the cliff edge and disco'ing it from a boat.

People have also had their accounts actioned by trapping mobs in houses to train on them. I'm sure there are a few here who could confirm that has happened? 

Blocking is against the rules, both in Tram and Fel.

Can't confirm that....... I can confirm they frowned upon putting like 10 frost dragons and 10 shadow wyrms in one of my Zento Houses in cages with lots of street facing openings and them pretty much killing anyone that walked by the house

Rocko

At launch, Raph Koster (Designer Dragon) and his team had their hands full with things like creating guard zones or developing the notoriety system.  Heck, Lord British was PK'd in the throne room on Napa Valley. If you played at launch or in the first three years you know what I am talking about.  Raph had an army of people working on the game compared to now. Blocking was not against the rules at launch.  It became so later as the company began to wield the TOS to reign in bad actors and keep as many subs as possible.

To me, the terminology of "exploiting game mechanics" is far more dangerous because it can be broadly interpreted.

Army

Literally has always been a thing. It’s the reason some mobs blow up items on the ground. 

Urge

Petra_Fyde said:

I don't know where it's written, but it has been in force for a very long time. I vividly remember as a very new player being taken to task by a Stratics moderator,, soon after I started posting there, for suggesting that I might train discord by luring a mob to the cliff edge and disco'ing it from a boat.

People have also had their accounts actioned by trapping mobs in houses to train on them. I'm sure there are a few here who could confirm that has happened? 

Blocking is against the rules, both in Tram and Fel.

I remember the pets in houses. People got banned, pets deleted and they also removed the blockage so the pets could kill the tamers.

What isn't right is inconsistency and changing rules on the fly. Standing in that house in haven to train resist is legal-ish but training archery on the ledge at slimes is a hard no.

I'm almost positive there's an official word where blockage could be used if 1 tile is passable but seems that's no longer the case either. 

LilyGrace

Tyrath said:

Petra_Fyde said:

I don't know where it's written, but it has been in force for a very long time. I vividly remember as a very new player being taken to task by a Stratics moderator,, soon after I started posting there, for suggesting that I might train discord by luring a mob to the cliff edge and disco'ing it from a boat.

People have also had their accounts actioned by trapping mobs in houses to train on them. I'm sure there are a few here who could confirm that has happened? 

Blocking is against the rules, both in Tram and Fel.

Can't confirm that....... I can confirm they frowned upon putting like 10 frost dragons and 10 shadow wyrms in one of my Zento Houses in cages with lots of street facing openings and them pretty much killing anyone that walked by the house

  that’s funny

Early on groups of us would use crates to trap monsters to train from. And I used to trap some critters just for the aesthetics. Using staves to create animal stalls and putting sheep or cows inside them. I made a dungeon room, hidden behind a wall of bookcases, using strewn body parts and hay and bedrolls, etc. Then I’d trap panthers that would patrol around in there. Lol this was when bookcases were empty looking unless you balanced a few things on them to decorate. 

I’ve always wished there was more done with letting us have pets that roamed around in a house. If they’re tamed they just stand and do nothing. If you tame them and free them in the house they’ll run around a bit and be gone at next server up. But they more often than not get caught in a standoff with a low end monster that wanders by and they just stand and stare at one another all day. 

TimSt

@LilyGrace, Pets will still roam about your house if you feed them and do not tell them to follow you. I had roaming pet cats and packy's use teleport tiles to get to the roof and jump off so many times that I had to add short walls.

LilyGrace

It’s been a very very long time, I’m not sure I considered that, @TimSt , to feed pets and let them wander around the way they do after they’re fed. Rather than release them I mean. 

I do recall how they’d often just stand still, locked in on a monster outside. Which they’ll do even after they’re released. Somehow once they’ve been tamed, even if you release them again, monsters want to eat them. 

And sometimes I’d tame, name and release a few dogs and cats, to have them wander around outside. But something, a harpy or troll, would spawn and that would be the end of them. 

keven2002

Urge said:

What isn't right is inconsistency and changing rules on the fly. Standing in that house in haven to train resist is legal-ish but training archery on the ledge at slimes is a hard no.

I think you nailed it. The problem here is just the inconsistency of how the game is policed.

Let's use the TOS rule #24 which is loosely "don't impact anyone else's experience".

If someone lures something in Tram that's a bannable offense (which would be in line with the rule) but if someone is multiboxing in the dungeon killing everything in front of them and you don't get as many drops (impacting your experience) that goes unpunished as long as the person isn't afk.

Then there is someone that is minding their own business in Tram in some random field, using bagballs to block a rabbit, but they can be banned (this isn't impacting anyone else's gameplay) if someone reports it.

On the flip side if someone lures something in Fel then it's totally fine because after all it's Fel. That same person can also use 3rd party unapproved clients to script and exploit things that cannot be done in any legal client but those accounts aren't banned.

Also while in Fel players can wall off a place like Star Room to literally block people from moving and completely impacting game play but that is also fine.

The random "ban line" is drawn as soon as you drop some bag balls down in around a rabbit in an open field that's bannable... in Fel where supposedly anything goes unless you are mining your own business in a field while impacting nobody's playing experience?

There are several other scenarios like this where people aren't actually impacting someone else's experience which will get you banned yet the elephant in the room of illegal 3rd party programs that completely impacts many users goes untouched and even unmentioned.

Urge

keven2002 said:

Also while in Fel players can wall off a place like Star Room to literally block people from moving and completely impacting game play but that is also fine.

Walls and efields are legal but don't you dare axe a crate of 100 candelabras on the gate or on block back to terra. 

Completely agree with everything else you said especially the other client part. It has ruined pvp on this version to the point hundreds have trammed out, quit or went to freeshards to get some decent play in. 

JackFlashUk

so what about AFK marcoing planting seeds and auto target with an archer, and when challenge by a useless GM with "YEP HI" script response, griefing players in situ and running that,  that's ok? to be doing that for 10 hours plus?  auto targeting the bunnies form other players thorns? No courtesy "hello, may I join you?" and then standing there doing nothing for a few more hours because you ran out of thorns?  Thats perfectly fine, but wow, you're in real trouble for using bag balls?  Happening on Legends RIGHT NOW and nothing gets done, pathetic. Note for GM, ask about the weather or something, when they say "YEP  HI" you have a job to do haven't you. Emails mesanna, nothing done.  Like I say LEGENDS RIGHT NOW. MOONGLOW SW CORNER

Lord_Frodo

Here is a good double standard, the guy (we all know who it is) admits to being AFK all the time and talks about 3rd party prog. all the time and has been warned time and time again but yet here he still is.  WHY???

JackFlashUk

Lord_Frodo said:

Here is a good double standard, the guy (we all know who it is) admits to being AFK all the time and talks about 3rd party prog. all the time and has been warned time and time again but yet here he still is.  WHY???

I hope you are not talking about me here? or are you linking to another post?

Grimbeard

JackFlashUk said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Here is a good double standard, the guy (we all know who it is) admits to being AFK all the time and talks about 3rd party prog. all the time and has been warned time and time again but yet here he still is.  WHY???

I hope you are not talking about me here? or are you linking to another post?merv/yoshi 

Acid_Rain

I’d be surprised if any of those complaining aren’t already aware but on the off chance a new player is reading the thread here it is :

The rule is against blocking with static objects. Energy fields and stone walls are not static, they’re dynamic. Originally blocking with boxes/crates and other objects was allowed. That changed after about 2yrs, it was no longer allowed. Players were filling homes w spawn to afk train magic resistance. UO took a hard approach against blocking via static objects anywhere.

This has been a rule for literally +20yrs. If you block star room w static objects you will almost certainly be paged on and account actioned. Someone has to page before a GM can intervene so occasionally players seem to get away with it. This in no way makes it legal.

‘Where is it written?’ argument reminds me of a movie dialogue: 
‘Would you turn to the page in this book that says where the mess hall is?’
-’Thats not in the book, sir’
‘You mean to say... you’ve never had a meal?’
- ‘No sir, three squares a day.’
’I don’t understand. How did you know where the mess hall was if it’s not in this book?’
- ‘Well I guess I just followed the crowd.’

Point being everyone knew...

CovenantX

Acid_Rain said:

UO took a hard approach against blocking via static objects anywhere.

   Too bad there's no hard approach to things that actually affect other players game-play.

 

There's a great deal of frustration with  many people who are sick of all the scripting in pvp,, like auto-box, auto-cure, wall scripting etc.    when Free-shards are able to disable features of these third-party programs, and real UO can't?   it's just unbelievable.

as a matter of fact.

  I had downloaded UOS**** several years ago to replicate a classic client crash exploit that would cause anyone using CC (including the exploiter) to crash if they were all in the same general chat channel.    took a few minutes to figure out how to do it, I tested it (in my own private gen-chat channel on TC1) I know a lot of people on LS crashed because of it being used by an opposing guild that we just so happened to be at war with at the time...  I should still have the Pm's between the devs and I on stratics (I believe it was just before these official forums opened up) and that exploit was fixed within a week or two...   Same deal with the  Pre-AoS stun-punch and disarm garbage people were using here

All I'm saying is, when you have to download and use an 'illegal program' to replicate exploits people are actively using for an unfair advantage over legitimate players, leadership needs to step up and do something about it...    (that specific exploit was fixed too and the abusers magically turned back into S*** players again shocker, I know..), they fixed A symptom... and not the real issue,

Yoshi

"no scripting in this game, its a myth"

CovenantX

Go around, nothing to see here....

 just ridiculous.

Yoshi

"but glad they are banning people who walk up to vendor and buy items and put item on ground to stop rabbit.

lol"