Ultima Online has a streamer problem

Grimbeard

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

I read your post it was informative on your opinions however every post since then has been critical and or telling people this is my thread stop hardly constructive towards convincing anyone anything 

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

I read your post it was informative on your opinions however every post since then has been critical and or telling people this is my thread stop hardly constructive towards convincing anyone anything 

Nah, I’ve had a fine time talking to Dvvid, Amber, Patrick, Keven and many others who were insightful about this topic, and also appreciated some thoughtful responses from folks like Gay and Arnold who see this issue differently. Hopefully our team is reading this thread and they'll see a few different takes on this issue as well as a fair amount of their players strong feelings on the topic.

The only things you've offered in this thread is complain about the dev team or complain about me. If you want to complain about them, there are plenty of places to do it. If you want to complain about me, I invite you to send me a DM. Like I said in my first reply to you, if you want to talk about the state of UO streaming (as was this thread's purpose) or even just talk about what you see from other game companies and how they interact with their streaming player fanbase, please do so! You do watch video game streamers, right?

Once again, if this thread is not to your taste (and it clearly isn't) you have the power to not read the thread any further, start your own, or unsubscribe your accounts.

Grimbeard

Again your approval of my opinion is not necessary maybe next time email @Mesanna directly so as not to be bothered? 

Jepeth

Pulling this thread back on topic, @EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

What are you talking about? He wasn't on a free shard. It literally says in the title of his video OSI/Retail.

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

What are you talking about? He wasn't on a free shard. It literally says in the title of his video OSI/Retail.

That's right might have been another these are the guys who couldn't figure out how money worked? 

Grimbeard

I understand what you want i really do i too wish we had a presence in gaming and were relevant which might attract new players more revenue and better UO  but the reality is we had the 25th anniversary a huge thing multiple gaming blogs and magazines covering and we heard not a peep ? Why? 

Jepeth

That is not Patrick. Can you please share this stream of the person who couldn't figure out money? 

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

That is not Patrick. Can you please share this stream of the person who couldn't figure out money?



 I think I saw it posted on Stratics last month 

Grimbeard

Around 1:20

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Around 1:20

lol...

You watched the video, right? He tried to buy it, read the fly over text saying "begging thy pardon, but thy bank account lacks these funds," and then read his twitch community chat on the side of the screen telling him what to do! He immediately ran to the bank to deposit the gold, came back, and bought his dye tub. He even gave us a little timelapse of it. This is literally the point I was making earlier, community involvement with a good streamer can make our game fun and engaging, and our dev team can do more for them.

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Around 1:20

lol...

You watched the video, right? He tried to buy it, read the fly over text saying "begging thy pardon, but thy bank account lacks these funds," and then read his twitch community chat on the side of the screen telling him what to do! He immediately ran to the bank to deposit the gold, came back, and bought his dye tub. He even gave us a little timelapse of it. This is literally the point I was making earlier, community involvement with a good streamer can make our game fun and engaging, and our dev team can do more for them.

You continue to miss the point and completely ignored my post about why this is a waste of time 

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

You continue to miss the point and completely ignored my post about why this is a waste of time 

Which point am I missing? That you misconstrued the part of the video you were trying to use as some sort of evidence that UO is not a fit for modern gamers/streamers?

No, there it is: "A waste of time."

It's my fault. I tried to, in good faith, respond to your incorrect statement about Patrick with an earnest request to understand where this thing about a streamer who couldn't figure out the game came from. But here we are, again, you're trying to bash the devs.

Sorry, I haven't given up on this game. Advocating for it is my time to waste. Agree to disagree and move on, Grimbeard. 

Lord_Frodo

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Smoot said:

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

So, as mentioned.. The point of this thread was not to tell players to be Twitch streamers. That's up to them and whether or not they are the right type for it. My post and our discussion was was attempting to advocate that our dev team include streamers in their overall strategy for the game. Whether or not someone is "pretty" enough is... immaterial ?

We have a hand full of people trying to maintain/bug fix/new content and you want them to take the time to stream stuff.  What is it exactly do you want/need them to tell/show you.

?

Where in these posts did I say I wanted the dev team to stream stuff?

I pretty clearly laid out some easy suggestions the team could do to help out streamers who want to take the game on, that’s it. Community outreach.

Frodo, have you sat down and watched a streamer? Patrick or Kittie? And if not a UO streamer, then any of the other hundreds of thousands on the platform? Cause what I’m seeing here is that you don’t quite grasp the point. This isn’t about tutorials! 

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

Jepeth

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

AmberWitch

Maybe I'll start twating Baja's gamers. Oh wait.. is that tweeting? Stitching? Switching? 

Again, all kidding aside, I think it would be interesting for this forum to start a new category for streamers to post when/what they're going to be streaming as well as a place to post previous streams. I think it should include OSI only videos. It's a brave new world of streaming,  UO is a 25 year old game and for many of us our mindsets are still stuck in the 90's. I speak for myself in this.

These forums could be a place for the Dev's and us players to see what kind of support (or lack thereof) is happening in this brave new world.  For a lot of us I think it would be a place of learning, as well as getting a sense of what is happening in that world, our world.

An eye opener for me was when I went to visit a UO friend that I use to have a blast playing with. Over time she had started to play less and less. I didn't understand why she was losing interest in the game until I saw that for the days I was at her house she was watching a lot of streaming. I just couldn't get it. I didn't understand the hold it had on her and frankly, personally, I still don't but that's me and my opinions getting all opinionated. She enjoyed it, she got a lot out of it. It was entertainment. Fine, I don't watch tv either.

So personal experience and opinions aside, I think that UO needs to get with it and enter this brave new world. I think it could be far more enlightening in regards to the social and mechanical aspects that we no longer see because we've become so use to them during 25 years of immersion.

Lord_Frodo

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Jepeth

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

And, finally, between the two of us, whose language here suggests someone getting upset? 

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

And, finally, between the two of us, whose language here suggests someone getting upset? 

Since you must as missed it let me quote my post 

"I understand what you want i really do i too wish we had a presence in gaming and were relevant which might attract new players more revenue and better UO  but the reality is we had the 25th anniversary a huge thing multiple gaming blogs and magazines covering and we heard not a peep ? Why? "

Now explain how you feel the developers are going to get involved with any streams 

Jepeth

AmberWitch said:

These forums could be a place for the Dev's and us players to see what kind of support (or lack thereof) is happening in this brave new world.  For a lot of us I think it would be a place of learning, as well as getting a sense of what is happening in that world, our world.

…

So personal experience and opinions aside, I think that UO needs to get with it and enter this brave new world. I think it could be far more enlightening in regards to the social and mechanical aspects that we no longer see because we've become so use to them during 25 years of immersion. 

I really like the idea of a specific forum! Any light the team could shed on folks trying to do this would be welcome.

On your last point, I think that’s a fun way to frame this issue. UO was one of the pioneering ways people socialized and made community on the early internet. Way different in tone and impact than Usenet or IRC or even The Well communities. Community socializing is in UO’s DNA, and whatever can be done to further that should be encouraged. 

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Since you must as missed it let me quote my post 

"I understand what you want i really do i too wish we had a presence in gaming and were relevant which might attract new players more revenue and better UO  but the reality is we had the 25th anniversary a huge thing multiple gaming blogs and magazines covering and we heard not a peep ? Why? "

Now explain how you feel the developers are going to get involved with any streams 

No, I didn't miss this, I just don't think it's my place to speak for our dev team, or why mainstream gaming news coverage didn't take notice of the party.

But, some news site did write stories about the anniversary. MMORPG.com did a nice piece talking about the rewards and quoted Raph Koster.

So did MassivelyOverpowered a few months earlier.

And GamePressure.

And GameBanshee.

Even PCGamer did an article in February of last year when the content began to hit TC.

That's all just from the first page of Google results. Now, why did none of these sites cover the actual party? You'd truly have to ask them, not me. If you're suggesting that it's for some reason our team's fault they didn't reach out, I feel like that's a Mesanna question. 

But, to your last question about why I feel like the developers are going to get involved with any streams: as I've said, I think there are real benefits for trying to help players build communities within the game. It's the same as them listing fansites on the homepage. They have a strong business incentive to keep the product going, and taking a more modern approach could be to their benefit. Simple as that. More players, more communities, more money. 

Grimbeard

So the same team that ignored massive world wide free advertising is suddenly gonna get involved with streaming 

Jepeth

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Jepeth

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Yeah, I mean, maybe? I understand the cynicism in this place, even if I don't, personally, subscribe to it. If one of our friends on the team wanted to pop in and say hello now would be a great time, but that's the thing about our game. Every comment they make is entirely scrutinized by the playerbase. I do it to them, too. I understand their reticence, but, like the cynicism, I don't prefer it, either. 

Grimbeard

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Yeah, I mean, maybe? I understand the cynicism in this place, even if I don't, personally, subscribe to it. If one of our friends on the team wanted to pop in and say hello now would be a great time, but that's the thing about our game. Every comment they make is entirely scrutinized by the playerbase. I do it to them, too. I understand their reticence, but, like the cynicism, I don't prefer it, either. 

Try emailing Mesanna you'll be surprised 

Grimbeard

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

And, finally, between the two of us, whose language here suggests someone getting upset? 

Now I understand, you do not want to make tutorials showing how to do things to help out the community you want to make videos showing how LEET and BADASS you are to further inflate your overinflated ego.  Thank you very much for clearing that up.  Good luck getting the DEVs to help you out.

Streaming in theory would be fantastic for the game some famous streamers have millions of followers this would equal more people seeing and hopefully playing UO