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Comments
I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over 4 years and counting.
Vendor search rendered useless after Publish 106 – Forsaken Foes on August 14, 2019.
They think when someone takes an item to Atl it is gone. A large percentage of items brought are sold to someone taking that item to their shard. It is the market to trade an item from one smaller shard to another. Atl is the shard being used not the small shards. We benefit.
But not on shard bound items.
And, if Shard Bound items did not exist, yes, items farmed on low population shards would end up on Atlantic thus increasing the offer BUT, likewise, players from low population Shards, not finding those items on their home low population shard (because no longer Shard Bound) would have to go to Atlantic (or ask to a fellow player from their home low population shard who can transfer to Atlantic and back) and this, obviously, would ALSO increase demand thus driving prices up...
Shard Bound IS a blessing, to my opinion, for Low Population Shards economy... it only hurts those players who were used to farm items on low population shards to then move them to Atlantic to sell them there faster and at a higher price but this, to my opinion, is a good thing..... not a bad one....
To me, it actually means being a "resident" of that Shard that is, spending most of one's one time logged in UO.....
Unfortunately, I understand that, to some other players, playing a low population Shard might mean just "hopping" on them to farm some items, be them powerscrolls, EM Events or other items, and then transfer them onto Atlantic to sell them....
Well, to my opinion, this is NOT playing that Shard... this is just taking advantage of that Shard because it is low population and, thus, with less players competing to he bothered by....
Shard Bound is good, very good, IMHO, because it ends this unhealthy traffic.....
If there was one.... this Post here above would definitely get my LIKE.....
With Shard Bound, eventually prices will adjust to whatever players actually playing on those Shard, not players "quickly hopping in and out" for an EM Event, or the farming of some items, are willing/can afford to pay for those Shard bound items on those Shards....
Furthermore, Shard Bound also finally permits players to "help out" fellow players playing their home Shards by even gifting those Shard Bound items or selling them at cheap prices to help new or returning players without any fear to be scammed because the players receiving those items free or cheaply would then move them to Atlantic to sell them for a high profit....
Shard Bound is good, VERY good for the health of Low Population Shards, to my opinion...
Because, lacking the Shard Bound restriction, farmers of those items on Low Population Shards MOVE them to Atlantic for profit....
If those items where also Shard Bound, they would NOT be moved to Atlantic and players of those Low Population Shards would then be actually able to find them on those Low Population Shards, without the need to have to look for them on Atlantic....
It is only "tailored" to the lower population of those Low Population Shards....
Sure, less Shard Bound items get farmed and thus put up for sale on Low Population Shards but, also, being on those Shards less players as resident, less players actually need to find them...
So, the equilibrium in between demand and offer is still met.... even when less items are farmed on those Shards...
On Atlantic, more items are farmed but also more players ask for them so, eventually priced go up, and sometimes a whole lot too....
On a Low Population Shard, for example, where there is only 1 player actively looking for a Shard Bound item and 3 such Shard items being up for sale on vendors, the same balance would need to be on Atlantic with 30 pieces of a Shard Bound item up for sale if 10 players where actively looking for such a Shard Bound item....
And it is way more likely, to my opinion, that on a Low Population Shard there might be 3 Shard Bound items up for sale for 1 player actively looking for such an item as there might be 30 on Atlantic for 10 players looking for such item Shard Bound item....
What I am trying to say is, that it is far easier for a couple of players on a Low Population Shard to get a few Shard bound "doubles" and put them on vendors for that 1 or 2 players on that Low Population Shard who might be actively looking for such a Shard Boud item as this might happen on Atlantic....
Perhaps, one thing might UO might benefit from, is the developers creating a NPC and a mechanics whereas players could "safely" trade, using these NPCs on their respective Shards, to trade Shard Bound items among them...
For example, say that Players A and B want to trade their respective same Shard Bound item which they respectively have on Shards 1 and 2.
They would go to their respective NPCs on their respective Shards, using their players' unique Account IDs, to open up a trade for their Shard Bound item on both Shards 1 and 2 and when both players have dropped the item on their respective NPCs on their home Shard, they would then be able with their character with that Account unique ID, to pick up the traded Shard Bound item on that other Shard which they might want it...
Items farmed on Shards would remain on those Shards because Shard Bound BUT, thanking to such mechanics, players would be able to trade their Shard Bound items on their Home Shard with Shard Bound items on some other Shard where they might need them because establishing a presence with a character there.
Popps, you are REALLY useful: reading your posts one immediately knows what is the sensate position on ANY topic, i.e. the one diametrically opposite to your!
I'm not that bothered, or into this as some players though, my reasons are pretty simple.
1. Yes - it does affect those players who like to transfer shards and are wearing these parts as a key part of their armour - this is undisputable, and not great.
2. I felt the flow of trade, goods etc between all shards, was always a good thing. It enables you to play on a low population shard, yet know if you have to, you can source an item your shard was not able to get, from another shard that someone else may have stored, it just gives you access to far more, and that is a nice thought, it makes you ok to play on a quieter shard, knowing you are not cut-off from accessibility to items - and rares.
3. Due to this all-round shard accessibility, it helped reduce the cost of these Event items right the way through the game. Certain other items - such as powerscrolls, it helped increase the cost of especially if there was a huge demand on Atlantic, but again, supply and demand - this had a positive and negative effect on smaller shards - newer players may think their quiet shard prices were a bit extreme for no reason, but in the overall scheme, you could then gain the item on your shard, and sell at Atlantic prices - that was the positive. As Mervyn has said - to me, it does not matter where the farmer plays as such, quiet shard, or Atlantic, they still exist.
Having said all this, it does not really bother me, the game still goes on.
I also have vendors that I stock, but I have to charge prices higher than I'd like, because when I don't resellers buy me out, denying my stock to regular buyers unless they pay the over inflated prices they charge.
I was selling bags of sending at 75k, but I can't anymore because the stock is cleared daily if I do. I must put them up to the new 'minimum' on vendor search or stop selling them at all. I kind of resent spending the time it takes to get them for someone else to profit from my efforts. If they want to sell bags of sending they should to the quest to stock their vendor as I do.
I also play on Origin, I found that I can only buy power scrolls there through general chat. No one can put them on vendors, because if they do they're just bought up and transferred, guess where to? I do have the items from Deceit there - I played to get them.
I completely agree with your analysis, and I mentioned it in my post also.
This however, is part of the positive, and negative of shard trading.
For the items you talk about, you are completely correct, this is exactly what happens - why? Because there is a huge demand elsewhere, and you are not just supplying Europa, you are supplying the entire game. You can see this as positive or negative. I know you want to help your community, and I completely get it. I'm going to draw a real life comparison with Cuba here - Cuba has 2 currencies for this reason - International buyers can buy-out everything - so they create a local currency to allow their population to buy items at a cheaper price, whilst the main currency that exports items prices at a much higher international price.
Flip this onto the Deceit event items though, and the rules change, because supply and demand of the items changes. You can over-supply your shard, and you can under-supply Atlantic. The shard bound blockage, causes a problem therefore on both shards, both Atlantic which wants these items, and the quiet shard where players see no additional incentive to supply the non-existent demand on their server, so their server produces less, and overall - in the entire scheme, there are less items, and less ability to share them around. The fix currently? - More players move to Atlantic, to supply the extra demand there - which is a negative impact to the quiet server they came from.
If this was going to present an opportunity for merely for people that normally live on a shard to fill the demand of larger shards once their own needs were met, I'd be all for it. The problem is what is being asked is that less populated dungeons be opened up to players and bots to farm and profit elsewhere. This does little to benefit the less populated shards but pushes the problems of overcrowding outward.
I agree that for players who wish to play their characters on multiple shards that shard bound gear presents a problem. I would rather a compromise for this being that a player has the option to buy a potion from the UO store to account bound an item which is currently shard bound. Thus, it can travel with the characters after it has been earned on a shard.
I'm going to counter some of your thinking a little
This concept of "corruption" - who is more or less corrupt?
Do you really think your quiet little shard is "less" corrupt, or does it just seem less, because you see less of it with less players?
On a worldwide scale - without going into detail, or being political in any way, and this isnt to take the politics any further, but there is a World Cup going on, with the inevitable clash of cultures. One culture has guns and executes criminals, another country is full of lager louts and drug addicts, another country treats women and gay people badly and executes people - but who is MORE "corrupt"? Or do they just have different issues.
{" If this was going to present an opportunity for merely for people that normally live on a shard to fill the demand of larger shards once their own needs were met, I'd be all for it. The problem is what is being asked is that less populated dungeons be opened up to players and bots to farm and profit elsewhere. This does little to benefit the less populated shards but pushes the problems of overcrowding outward."}
Cultures should potentially mix, and be opened up, that way, we find a better balance.
Your argument could be seen as being a little selfish - I want my little area to remain a paradise, while the rest of the UO/worldwide problems stay away from my front door - we have a phrase for that in the UK - NIMBY's - Not in my Backyard. Often people who want Wind Power, but are not prepared for the windmills to be placed in their area.
The reason I draw parallels to Real Life, are because these UO issues are direct parallels with macro-economics, and macro socioeconomics - as many have picked up on.
So with the old way you would just buy a xfer to ATL and one wherever home was to get what you need.
Your way: a xfer token to ATL, a potion to remove shard bound and another xfer to wherever home was.
It's still being farmed sold and bought on ATL. Now you've just added even more real money to it for those of us without shard shields.
Community has already been built, packed up and left. Its not coming back. There's no more new players. There are a good deal of return players but no new ones.
Basically you are saying that inflation is due to player greed (which I would agree with to a point) and then in the next breath you are saying you would love to charge less on your vendor BUT the greedy people are buying your stuff to resell so that means YOU need to increase your prices. The result is whoever ends up buying is still buying for an inflated price so doesn't that make you just another "greedy" person?
If you really wanted to practice what you were trying to preach, you wouldn't care what happens after you sell your items and you would price them according to what you are satisfied making from your efforts.
To be clear, I don't think there is anything wrong charging "the going price" for items as that's what supply/demand is all about but I don't think people should act holier than thou talking about greed while trying to justify why they shard more for things. I typically charge "going rate" for things because that allows me to buy other things I want for going rate but I will also help others where I can.
You'll have gathered by now that I absolutely loath resellers, whom I consider to be parasites. I realise that I'm in a minority holding that attitude.
It is an interesting problem, I don't think it is a sham, it very much exists from her perspective, I do see it myself on Europa, but my tolerance level is higher for some things, and MUCH lower for others
Kevin - you have a typical American capitalist viewpoint, you do genuinely all think like this, you have no issues with the pricing, I get it - Petra does however see it differently, and it is genuine.
I can genuinely see and understand both sides, I empathise with Petra's viewpoint, but your viewpoint is the majority and common consensus - so realistically, I play by your rules. I guess calling people "greedy" does not help, in the sense we all know players whose game is orientated in this manner, and we do it ourselves a little also.
So yes, there are a few possible responses;
1. Like Petra says, some don't use vendors anymore, they keep their own stock, and just help out community when they get a chance.
2. You price at the going rate, accept it, and equally win from it.
3. You price at a lower rate, if you genuinely want to be helping other players out. This does lead to a situation where you as a producer can be taken advantage of. But in the overall scheme - your goods reach an enlarged market, and distribution does happen.
4. This is an interesting one I think should be explored, absolutely flood the market, to bring the entire price down, this is the only real way it can come down, but as we often see with UO, or any pricing, once an item has gone up and reached a price, it rarely comes down - there is a lot of greed driven by pure merchants who have 1 agenda only, this does have to be accepted.
5. A duel currency like Cuba.
6. Shard Binding items, is equivalent to sanctions, trade tariffs or Protectionism - what could be implemented however if we were looking at this route - would be a Shard Transfer Tax. It would allow shard trading for those who really want it, and are willing to pay for it, but it would also discourage price gouging. It would probably open up other cans of worms. This would be complicated in the sense what values do you use.
7. Exchange rates between servers - again, this is another way the real-world deals with these issues.
8 - One of my favourite solutions - was to open the Vendor Search up to every single Shard Combine them all - that way, everyone can access the market - buying and selling, and bring true balance, without all this pricing arbitrage happening when you switch between servers.
@Cookie - Good assessment of both sides thank you for that.
Cheers to you both!
Precisely.
If you, as a player, were given by the Developers the ability to "tag" your Bags of Sending or other items as Shard Bound as I suggested in this Thread some time ago https://forum.uo.com/discussion/11210/how-about-giving-to-players-the-ability-to-set-an-item-as-shard-bound , wouldn't you be able to price your items at cheaper prices to help out your home Shard with no worry that resellers would buy you out and then move the items to Atlantic for a large profit ?
Shard Bound, I have no doubts, are a blessing come true for Low Population Shards and the helping of their economy....
Like wise the low level slayer weapons I tried to make for newbies and sell at prices they could afford. They appeared elsewhere on the shard at 10x the price. I could trace those by doing a vendor search for my crafter's name.
No, to my opinion, I do not see players raising their items' prices on their Low Population home Shard to reduce buy_low/sell_high resellers to take advantage of "her" work in the game as being greedy, totally not.
These players, to my opinion, only try to defend their work in the game rather then see it go to benefit players who buy low on Low Population Shards to then resell those items higher, sometimes MUCH higher, on Atlantic....
If these players were to be given the ability to tag their items on Vendors on their Low Population Shards as "Shard Bound", likely we would see a whole lot more items on Low Population Shards be priced cheaper to help out those players on those Low Population Shards... particularly new or returning players....