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An Explanation From The Devs Regarding Deceit 'AFK Penalty' and Actioning Accounts is Required

usernameusername Posts: 959
in General Discussions
It's time for some official word on what is happening in Deceit (and started in Destard). The same multibox groups and sampires are running around 23/7 without hesitation (I have personally paged on them dozens of times), yet, lots of players are being hit with the 'AFK Penalty' aka being unable to attack monsters for a period of time and now accounts are being actioned without GM contact:

Rules of Conduct: 6) You may not leave an active character or pet in game while unattended. If your character is performing a skill, text or action, you must be able to respond to a Game Master when one attempts to speak to you.

... which is a direct violation of their own ROC, yet is upheld when disputed.

The players deserve some sort of an explanation of what's going on instead of complete silence @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak
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Comments

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    They will claim well the fanboi club will that they don't discuss such things 
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    Grimbeard said:
    They will claim well the fanboi club will that they don't discuss such things 
    If they are breaking their own ROC I do believe it deserves some sort of addressing from the Dev team. 
    This discussion has been closed.

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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    edited November 2022
    Grimbeard said:
    They will claim well the fanboi club will that they don't discuss such things 
    Show us a link to where the Devs have explained the methods used to determine how they determine actions against accounts.  Anytime is the history of UO.  The Clops incident was the only one I have ever heard about.
    I doubt we are supposed to come here and talk about actions against our own accounts.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    edited November 2022
    username said:
    Grimbeard said:
    They will claim well the fanboi club will that they don't discuss such things 
    If they are breaking their own ROC I do believe it deserves some sort of addressing from the Dev team. 
    Your account was hit?  From what I read it was not you.  So, how do you know what really happened and when it happened?  Hearsay is not admissible evidence.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    by your own admission you have been afk abd deserve a ban
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    edited November 2022
    Grimbeard said:
    by your own admission you have been afk abd deserve a ban
    Apparently AFK is ok if you are not getting drops.  I am not special. Pretend I got my 30 min time out if it makes you feel better.  I have had 2 toons in the front of Deceit for 15 hours to run it out since then. :D

    I told you at the beginning of Deceit I got hit with the time out in Destard by the Ankh while afk.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    edited November 2022
    • Legitimate players being flagged AFK and unable to attack monster.
    • Legitimate players being actioned by GMs without investigation, leading to account action/ban.
    • Bots running around 23/7.
    • Multibox groups unchecked.
    @Mesanna @Kyronix bad look friends, say SOMETHING!
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  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 235


    This change of penalizing bad actors has been a positive for the community.  Addressing farming bots has been long over due.   The developer's should play their cards close to their chest on this one.  If they give specifics of how people are getting hit with the AFK farming tag, people will find a loop hole around it. 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Merlin said:


    This change of penalizing bad actors has been a positive for the community.  Addressing farming bots has been long over due.   The developer's should play their cards close to their chest on this one.  If they give specifics of how people are getting hit with the AFK farming tag, people will find a loop hole around it. 
    This would be very true if we stopped seeing reports of groups running wild ..
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,292
    Merlin said:


    This change of penalizing bad actors has been a positive for the community.  Addressing farming bots has been long over due.   The developer's should play their cards close to their chest on this one.  If they give specifics of how people are getting hit with the AFK farming tag, people will find a loop hole around it. 


    The community deserves to know why we have report after report of legit(?) players being hit with it, what they're going to do to prevent that in the future, if this is a test run to eventually flow over gamewide and if there will be actioned accounts on this. 

    I have no problem with a system being put in and i don't need inner workings.

    What i do have a problem with is not knowing if we're going to risk actions on our accounts by means of normal gameplay with a faulty system. 

  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,452
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    edited November 2022
    Merlin said:


    This change of penalizing bad actors has been a positive for the community.  Addressing farming bots has been long over due.   The developer's should play their cards close to their chest on this one.  If they give specifics of how people are getting hit with the AFK farming tag, people will find a loop hole around it. 
    Although my post doesn't comment on how positive or negative it's been for the community (how would we even know??) I would agree... but it doesn't seem to be doing much as again there are the same sampires running around like they're on crack 23/7 and multibox groups going unchecked. Also, no one would be asking for specifics: just an announcement that such system exists. If they're taking these AFK timeouts seriously and escalating them to actual account action, this 100% should be said that it's happening.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over FIVE YEARS and counting.
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  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    Arnold7 said:
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
    Basically, this. All Mesanna needs to do is say, "Hey, there's an anti afk system so don't afk in the dungeon you may lose your account". Simple and gets the message across without revealing any information on how the system works. As I have stated before, there are tons of legitimate ways to not illegally AFK in a dungeon, even down to the template (tamer archer) you play that may not have to act very attended. 

    Again, not saying to get rid of the system, not saying they have to tell us exactly how it works, just that it exists and there could be serious account consequences. I feel like that's a very low bar to set.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over FIVE YEARS and counting.
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    Don't the emails and time outs players are getting verify that there is something going on?  :D

    They said in the M&G they will not elaborate.

    Don't break the rules and you will be fine.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    edited November 2022
    Urge said:
    Merlin said:


    This change of penalizing bad actors has been a positive for the community.  Addressing farming bots has been long over due.   The developer's should play their cards close to their chest on this one.  If they give specifics of how people are getting hit with the AFK farming tag, people will find a loop hole around it. 


    The community deserves to know why we have report after report of legit(?) players being hit with it, what they're going to do to prevent that in the future, if this is a test run to eventually flow over gamewide and if there will be actioned accounts on this. 

    I have no problem with a system being put in and i don't need inner workings.

    What i do have a problem with is not knowing if we're going to risk actions on our accounts by means of normal gameplay with a faulty system. 

    This 100% thank you, well said.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over FIVE YEARS and counting.
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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Pawain said:
    Don't the emails and time outs players are getting verify that there is something going on?  :D

    They said in the M&G they will not elaborate.

    Don't break the rules and you will be fine.
    You broke the rules and were fine MULTIPLE others are saying we've been punished for no reason 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    edited November 2022
    When has been sitting afk been something regularly punished.   Never.  Players do it all the time. 

    I wasn't doing punishable things. so get over it.  :D

    Do you monitor all players all the time? Nope.  So you do not know what they were doing.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Pawain said:
    When has been sitting afk been something regularly punished.   Never.  Players do it all the time. 

    I wasn't doing punishable things. so get over it.  :D

    Do you monitor all players all the time? Nope.  So you do not know what they were doing.
    Outside the dungeon all good inside accidentally killing monsters cheating 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    username said:
    Arnold7 said:
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
    Basically, this. All Mesanna needs to do is say, "Hey, there's an anti afk system so don't afk in the dungeon you may lose your account". Simple and gets the message across without revealing any information on how the system works. As I have stated before, there are tons of legitimate ways to not illegally AFK in a dungeon, even down to the template (tamer archer) you play that may not have to act very attended. 

    Again, not saying to get rid of the system, not saying they have to tell us exactly how it works, just that it exists and there could be serious account consequences. I feel like that's a very low bar to set.
    Why does she even have to say it.  Didn't they hint at yes there is something running during the M&G, do you really need someone telling you YES THERE IS AN AFK PROGRAM RUNNING SO DO NOT GO AFK IN THE DUNGEONS OR RUN ANY OTHER PROGRAMS.  Is that good enough for you, seriously
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Frodo said:
    username said:
    Arnold7 said:
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
    Basically, this. All Mesanna needs to do is say, "Hey, there's an anti afk system so don't afk in the dungeon you may lose your account". Simple and gets the message across without revealing any information on how the system works. As I have stated before, there are tons of legitimate ways to not illegally AFK in a dungeon, even down to the template (tamer archer) you play that may not have to act very attended. 

    Again, not saying to get rid of the system, not saying they have to tell us exactly how it works, just that it exists and there could be serious account consequences. I feel like that's a very low bar to set.
    Why does she even have to say it.  Didn't they hint at yes there is something running during the M&G, do you really need someone telling you YES THERE IS AN AFK PROGRAM RUNNING SO DO NOT GO AFK IN THE DUNGEONS OR RUN ANY OTHER PROGRAMS.  Is that good enough for you, seriously
    Well the confusion stems from many afk multi boxing accounts not getting hit while normal players are since you and Allen feel all ok why not clitter up the thread with more replies? 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Grimbeard said:
    Lord_Frodo said:
    username said:
    Arnold7 said:
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
    Basically, this. All Mesanna needs to do is say, "Hey, there's an anti afk system so don't afk in the dungeon you may lose your account". Simple and gets the message across without revealing any information on how the system works. As I have stated before, there are tons of legitimate ways to not illegally AFK in a dungeon, even down to the template (tamer archer) you play that may not have to act very attended. 

    Again, not saying to get rid of the system, not saying they have to tell us exactly how it works, just that it exists and there could be serious account consequences. I feel like that's a very low bar to set.
    Why does she even have to say it.  Didn't they hint at yes there is something running during the M&G, do you really need someone telling you YES THERE IS AN AFK PROGRAM RUNNING SO DO NOT GO AFK IN THE DUNGEONS OR RUN ANY OTHER PROGRAMS.  Is that good enough for you, seriously
    Well the confusion stems from many afk multi boxing accounts not getting hit while normal players are since you and Allen feel all ok why not clitter up the thread with more replies? 
    LMAO
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    edited November 2022
    username said:
    Arnold7 said:
    Was flagged twice for no apparent reason.  Second timeout was much longer than the first.  Can’t report it to a gm because gm sent me a message gms cannot discuss afk flagging.  No notification of being flagged, no conformation of being flagged, no communication regarding the length of the time out, no remedy and no excuse for this kind of programming.  Also, no reporting from UO that the afk program is actually doing what it is intended to so let me add no follow up and monitoring to the list.
    Basically, this. All Mesanna needs to do is say, "Hey, there's an anti afk system so don't afk in the dungeon you may lose your account". Simple and gets the message across without revealing any information on how the system works. As I have stated before, there are tons of legitimate ways to not illegally AFK in a dungeon, even down to the template (tamer archer) you play that may not have to act very attended. 

    Again, not saying to get rid of the system, not saying they have to tell us exactly how it works, just that it exists and there could be serious account consequences. I feel like that's a very low bar to set.
    Why does she even have to say it.  Didn't they hint at yes there is something running during the M&G, do you really need someone telling you YES THERE IS AN AFK PROGRAM RUNNING SO DO NOT GO AFK IN THE DUNGEONS OR RUN ANY OTHER PROGRAMS.  Is that good enough for you, seriously

    You can read the rest of the thread as to why, but the fast jist of it is:
    • It's a new system
    • AFK is not always illegal (BIG CHANGE IN POLICY)
    • There are serious account consequences
    • GMs are not investigating AFK just handing out penalties (BIG CHANGE IN POLICY)
    • Tons of alleged false positives**
    ** = alleged meaning proven in my case. I have not only been hit by the AFK timeout penalty but I have also received written warning through email that I was AFK macroing and did not respond to a GM while I was hunting in deceit. I was not afk. I was never contacted by a GM chat, A GM never showed up, I was never pulled to jail, my gameplay was never interrupted. I was not running any 3rd party programs. This written warning escalates in to a permanent ban if I receive more of them.

    Yeah, an explanation is necessary. If they're going to start perma banning players, yes, it is required.

    IF THEY ARE CHANGING THEIR OWN POLICY AND ROC THAT LEADS TO PERMENANT ACCOUNT ACTION IT IS REQUIRED. DONE, NO EXCEPTION.


    Would you ok with them banning players AFK at luna bank/gate/stables performing no actions? No, you wouldn't be, so don't act like and gaslight players in to thinking this isn't a major issue.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over FIVE YEARS and counting.
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    edited November 2022

    It is their game they can Ban you for 1 action. There is no trial.  You are guilty without bail or any trial.  You can plead your case in an email like I showed you.


    ** I have only seen 1 trustworthy case of false tagging.  And there are a lot fewer brand new posters coming here to complain.  They are understanding what they are doing is wrong.

    This is not the place to tell your stories of whoa. We can not do anything to change what is happeneing.


    You constant complaining about them not doing anything in these events is what caused them to do something. Now you are mad?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Again why must you continue to reply? @Rorschach @Mariah please let's fix this..
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,308
    Grimbeard said:
    Again why must you continue to reply? @ Rorschach @ Mariah please let's fix this..
    Yes they should make this forum about UO and not about personal account issues.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • usernameusername Posts: 959
    edited November 2022
    Grimbeard said:
    Again why must you continue to reply? @ Rorschach @ Mariah please let's fix this..
    There are certain members of this forum which I've ignored since they constantly try to troll for +1 post count, try to get threads locked to push their agenda/silence any opposition, and don't even read any of the posts that would answer any of their 'legitimate' questions the would have. I'd recommend doing the same. 

    Do not lock this thread.
    This discussion has been closed.

    I will be slow to reply because I cannot log in/stay logged in to the forums.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over FIVE YEARS and counting.
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  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,315Moderator
    Personal account issues will not be dealt with in public. If you feel you have wrongly been penalized, deal with it, as advised, by email to the addresses already provided.
    Further, the devs will not explain in detail how this system is working in public, just as they never pre-warn offenders of their intention to fix exploits.

    IF the devs make any statement regarding this topic it will probably be in the next newsletter. It most certainly won't be on this forum.
  • SuperfrogSuperfrog Posts: 102
    The only thing required, is that we follow their rules. They own the game and everything in it and are not required to explain every little detail to us. Our options are to pay the monthly sub, or not. So far my choice is to pay them and play the game and enjoy it, as a game meant for enjoyment should be.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,292
    Mariah said:
    Personal account issues will not be dealt with in public. If you feel you have wrongly been penalized, deal with it, as advised, by email to the addresses already provided.
    Further, the devs will not explain in detail how this system is working in public, just as they never pre-warn offenders of their intention to fix exploits.

    IF the devs make any statement regarding this topic it will probably be in the next newsletter. It most certainly won't be on this forum.

    I find the lack of community concern over false flags alarming especially since we do not know if this super top secret system does or will lead to accounts being suspended. 

    I haven't been hit with anything as i don't have much in game time lately but i do have over twenty three years invested in prodo, off and on, with multiple accounts, spanning from beta until now. I do not wish to risk my years of time, money and personal accomplishments over what could be possible faulty code. 

    This is either a bad system or a mass case of pants on fire syndrome. Just seeing the unfixed bugs, some being 10+ years old, i realize this could go in either direction.

    This is why i would like it heavily reviewed to work as whatever they intend this to be and addressed as such. 
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