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Masteries not broken by break in line of site

YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
edited October 2022 in Bugs
“Animal taming: combat training not broken by a break in line of site between owner and pet.

Peacemaking: perseverance & resilience
Not broken by break in line of site between peacer and party member

Provocation: inspire & invigorate
same

Discordance: tribulation & despair
(Not tested)

Exploited by placing bard or tamer in an invulnerable location EG a house or behind a wall/door where mobs cannot access, while subject still under buff protection.

expected result: break in line of site to cause subject to lose buff, same as going out of range (distance)”

Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.

Comments

  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 899
    Line of site checks as it stands now can be very broken and produce unexpected failures.

    So I'd suggest any change related to masteries and checks using the current LOS system to be FEL only.  Otherwise, it's very frustrating for "legitimate" players (most bard usage is likely in tram for pvm).

    Additionally, for bards, the current "visual" line of site checks probably wouldn't make sense.  Sound carries around corners (cases where the current visual checks would not make sense), and would also carry through certain materials (grated doors, vs. solid doors, etc).

    Probably a dozen bugs and examples can be filed on cases where the current LOS checks behave strangely.  (barrels in the underwater keying area, stone pavers in deceit, acid slug area, ...).

  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,422
    Bards should not be bound by line of sight.  Most of the time in days of old Bards were heard, not seen.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    "i don't see why this should be fel only at all, can farm afk too in tram by hiding a bard/tamer behind doors inaccessible to monsters and using mastery,
    every other spell you require line of sight to cast on subject

    perhaps they could make it so it only breaks if line of sight is broken for a substantial period of time, eg 5 seconds if you think it would erroneously break sometimes, so line of sight check only needs to be made periodically"
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  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,422
    You are not casting a spell with a Bard, you are playing a song.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    "From what i have heard mesanna is already aware of this issue where bards can hide in house completely immune from all attack from any mob and still maintain buff without line of sight, am just posting here as a placeholder for public tracking info
    i don't think it is up for debate unfortunately

    i don't think you can debate that you should be able to be invulnerable while engaging in combat in any facet

    but don't let that stop you trying haha"
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  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 899
    So by this logic, discordance and provocation (non mastery songs) should also be cancelled if current "visual" line of site is broken, too?

    Let's not forget the complaint that mounted pets keep discord up when in range too?

    Beyond keeping this to FEL, also just consider trying these changes in the new legacy shard first.

    Please fix all the line of site bugs before any of this, too :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,053
    edited October 2022
    You do not use a Tamer often, Consume has a range. So do bard Buffs.

    So if my pet is 1 square away from me in the Ram room stage, I should lose consume?

    Just because you do not like the game mechanics, does not mean it is a bug.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    Pawain said:
    You do not use a Tamer often, Consume has a range. So do bard Buffs.

    So if my pet is 1 square away from me in the Ram room stage, I should lose consume?

    Just because you do not like the game mechanics, does not mean it is a bug.

    "yes they have a range, i stated they have range, but they also need line of sight. My main char is a tamer, that is an issue with the ram room, and line of sight, not the mastery"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    So by this logic, discordance and provocation (non mastery songs) should also be cancelled if current "visual" line of site is broken, too?


    "I would say so yes

    But just out of interest, does anyone have any legitimate gameplay tactics they feel would be affected by this fix?
    Please post a screnario, so far Pawain has come up with the ram room issue, but like i said that is a problem with the ram room, where that room requires fixing, as currently you can't do a lot in there"
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,053
    edited October 2022
    Where is it stated that Masteries require line of sight?

    Or is this a rule that you made up because someone killed you in fel?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,422
    It's a @Mervyn/@Yoshi rule
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Line of sight should not be a requirement for these buffs already restricted by a range requirement.

    Are there going to be instances where players find creative ways to use them… of course there are… that happens with every aspect of the game.

    I would however support adding some functionality that would eject a bard from a house if any member of the bard’s party received the bard buff while in the heat of battle.  I do not think bards should be able to be inside a house while buffing party members engaged in PvP.  
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,422
    Is the house sound proof?
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    Merus said:
    Line of sight should not be a requirement for these buffs already restricted by a range requirement.
    “So is every other spell or action, restricted by both range and line of sight.

    I don’t know of anything that has no range restriction 

    that is like saying I should be invincible so long as my armor gets damaged and needs repair eventually.

    This is more of a problem in trammel with abuse of doors in dungeons vs mobs than for PvP, as for pvp you could simply choose to not engage in combat near a house with an active bard in, in trammel it’s problem with tamers and bards combating vs mobs with immunity without line of sight even.

    (please note, this account is restricted and is near the maximum amount of replies able to post on this thread)”

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  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,455
    I don't know about you, but I can hear the music my neighbour is playing through the house wall RL. Music is heard, not seen, line of sight is irrelevant. However, I could see a reason for range to be reduced if there is an object, door, wall, between the bard and his/her target.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,284
    Petra_Fyde said:
    I don't know about you, but I can hear the music my neighbour is playing through the house wall RL. Music is heard, not seen, line of sight is irrelevant. However, I could see a reason for range to be reduced if there is an object, door, wall, between the bard and his/her target.
    There are LOS restrictions as i am often unable to disco or provo in and near the ram room near the jail cells the long hall way to stairs to level 2 in other words everywhere. Perhaps there are parts of the story or supposed event merv/yoshi not telling. 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    “Exactly, yes, you already require a LoS to discord or provo, or initiate combat training. but just not to maintain it currently.

    as a general rule, people who abuse a bug in a game mechanic will refer to it as a trick, and will argue against a fix if they are self gaining from it (just saying)”
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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,284
    Yoshi said:
    “Exactly, yes, you already require a LoS to discord or provo, or initiate combat training. but just not to maintain it currently.

    as a general rule, people who abuse a bug in a game mechanic will refer to it as a trick, and will argue against a fix if they are self gaining from it (just saying)”
    It's sound... as long as you can hear it.. and you've never done roof with a tamer or you wouldn't say LOS doesn't break consume damage..
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    "i do the roof with a tamer regularly, not sure what you're referring to. 
    Something with virtuebane explosion? that's not line of sight break, that's paralize causing combat training to stop"
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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,284
    You've never done belfry and watched your pet die ? Go back to fel
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    "no, the mastery works on belfry if you're down the bottom and dragon is at the top, without line of sight, which actually is not how the belfry is supposed to work (i don't think). 
    I think the intention was to ring the bell, kill the drakes, get a feather and kill the dragon, the dragon will periodically kick the tamer off the platform, but you can currently bypass this by making your dragon fly onto the platform while running consume damage on the floor out of sight, 
    the only time it breaks is if goes out of range which you can avoid by positioning yourself. 

    (I actually normally use a different bug to pull the dragon down from the platform using spellweaving and necromancy)

    I was asking if anyone could imagine any legitimate examples where they would feel line of sight check should not apply, so far nobody has been able to provide an example of one

    please no give abuse"
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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,284
    Yoshi said:
    "no, the mastery works on belfry if you're down the bottom and dragon is at the top, without line of sight, which actually is not how the belfry is supposed to work (i don't think). 
    I think the intention was to ring the bell, kill the drakes, get a feather and kill the dragon, the dragon will periodically kick the tamer off the platform, but you can currently bypass this by making your dragon fly onto the platform while running consume damage on the floor out of sight, 
    the only time it breaks is if goes out of range which you can avoid by positioning yourself. 

    (I actually normally use a different bug to pull the dragon down from the platform using spellweaving and necromancy)

    I was asking if anyone could imagine any legitimate examples where they would feel line of sight check should not apply, so far nobody has been able to provide an example of one

    please no give abuse"
    Merv/yoshi it's not abuse or anger but you have no clue what you are talking about 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    “Add to list of mastery not broken by break in line of site:
    death ray - (submitted by @gay) ;

    with this similarly to bard, you can attack a mob from a doorway and then close the door and continue to kill from safe location without receiving damage yourself

    same with taming: consume damage, can heal pet from next room without line of site - very bad.

    not yet tested bard mastery - despair”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "bearing in mind is bannable to block rabbit with bagball,
    should not be able to kill monster or player while not attackable

    (if target is another player, enemy player would not have permission to open door in private house, so same effect)"



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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “Not tested,
    concept: 
    its perhaps possible to leverage this exploit for spectator of arena duel to maintain buffs for an active arena participant? 
    someone can help me test?”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    Yoshi said:
    “Not tested,
    concept: 
    its perhaps possible to leverage this exploit for spectator of arena duel to maintain buffs for an active arena participant? 
    someone can help me test?”

    " confirmed thanks to Emily

    Exploit present.




    original expected result : of break in line of site between caster and target/beneficiary for masteries to break buff/spell will fix all current and future potential issues

    "
    bard.png 419.3K
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