Please stop 2D auto follow in dungeon

24

Comments

  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    edited October 2022
    Merus said:
    The biggest problem is that GMs aren’t educated enough (most times) to actually tell the difference between a good multi-client player and a multi-boxer… especially if they are standing still.

    I regularly play 4 accounts and have 4 monitors.  With basic CC macros bound to the same key for each client, I can easily manually move my mouse over each client and hit the macro key for all 4 in about 1-1.5 seconds.  From the casual observer it looks like they all do the same thing at the same time, even though they don’t.  Add in a row for toggle primary ability to the CC targeting macro shown above and it’s super easy for me to chain AI on 4 accounts for attacking the nearest mob.

    I readily admit to using the same strategy while using auto-follow in CC.  If you see me playing it very much looks like an auto attack script because it usually takes auto-follow about 1-2 seconds for the following clients to stop moving once I’ve stopped the lead character… during which I’ve hit the macro on each screen.  Again from the casual observer it looks like they auto attack the exact moment they stop moving (ranged AI won’t attack until the character is stationary).

    I’ve been playing with this setup for years, so I have lots of practice and consider myself pretty decent at it, but I’m quite certain there are players who do it better than me.

    Just because you can’t do it, or fail to understand how another player can, does not mean that the player needs to be banned or the functionality removed from the game.  That’s the same kind of broken thinking that has some schools removing AP classes because not everyone is smart enough to be in them.
    It’s easy to see multi boxing. It’s much faster than your 4 to 6 seconds split for 4 PC.

    Multiboxing can be 10 characters casting one same spell at the same time (1 sec? For fireball?) and hitting the target at the same time.

    Yours would take 4 to 6 seconds. you are too slow to be called MB. Pls see my screen capture in my 2nd post.

    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8583/how-to-report-multi-boxing

    I have posted this so many times, this is so obvious it’s multiboxing.


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • keven2002 said:
    Sorry @ Merus but I disagree. I think the average (legal) UO player isn't anywhere near that level of power gaming that you are. In fact I'm reminded this quite often when I suggest on here that events end earlier than they do or could be more spawn and the hoards of people respond that "there isn't enough time to get enough drops" or "it's hard enough as it is". etc.

    So maybe you can toggle between screens that fast but the fact still remains that I'm literally seeing a train of chars fire multiple arrows at almost every target which includes skeletons/zombies instantly and they die instantly. There is no amount of human speed that could constantly do that. The problem is that I'm seeing them during the morning before GMs log on to action them.

    So punish legit, rule following players because some cheaters do something entirely different with some minor similarity?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    keven2002 said:
    Sorry @ Merus but I disagree. I think the average (legal) UO player isn't anywhere near that level of power gaming that you are. In fact I'm reminded this quite often when I suggest on here that events end earlier than they do or could be more spawn and the hoards of people respond that "there isn't enough time to get enough drops" or "it's hard enough as it is". etc.

    So maybe you can toggle between screens that fast but the fact still remains that I'm literally seeing a train of chars fire multiple arrows at almost every target which includes skeletons/zombies instantly and they die instantly. There is no amount of human speed that could constantly do that. The problem is that I'm seeing them during the morning before GMs log on to action them.

    So punish legit, rule following players because some cheaters do something entirely different with some minor similarity?
    Yes better to punish a few "innocent " then allow it to continue 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    @keven2002 I never suggested the average player can do what I do, as well as I do.  I invested some real $ in a gaming PC capable of running 4 clients and supporting 4 monitors, and have spent years practicing it.  But I’m also not so advanced to think there aren’t people who are better at it than me… I’m sure there are.

    The fact that most players don’t understand what is possible within the bounds of legal play is part of the problem with what the OP suggests.  What’s worse is when those charged with enforcing the rules are equally ignorant.

    Does multi-boxing happen, I’m quite sure it does… but it’s not fair to suggest that everyone who uses auto follow must be a cheater just because they’ve invested like I have in order to do it well… or that auto follow should be removed because not everyone can/does utilize it well.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 854
    edited October 2022
    So this illegal multiboxing is not reliant on auto follow ?   Be good for all of us and more importantly the GM and Devs to know so only the wrong people get punished 

    and if auto follow is disabled for this event. Then anyone towing throwers are 100% using illegal means 

    this either gets them banned or they don’t risk it

    both resulting in harmonious play for everyone ?  Well apart from bard towing players in this instance ?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,804
    So this illegal multiboxing is not reliant on auto follow ?   Be good for all of us and more importantly the GM and Devs to know so only the wrong people get punished 

    and if auto follow is disabled for this event. Then anyone towing throwers are 100% using illegal means 

    this either gets them banned or they don’t risk it

    both resulting in harmonious play for everyone ?  Well apart from bard towing players in this instance ?
    Multiboxing will do the same keystroke/mouse movement to all the "team". So they can all move and do other macros at the same time.  They do not need to follow.  Search UO multibox and you will find it uses the EC only.  Not sure what capabilities the program that Yoshi advertises for has, it uses CC.

    What some of use have is multiple monitors and the mouse speed set high. I move my mouse 1/2 inch and it goes through 3 monitors. (My wife hates using my PC for work.)

    So we can click a screen and push a macro then move to the next.  It is not as fast as multiboxing since we have to push a button for each toon.

    Deceit is small and has too many doors and levels.  I am not dragging along a Bard for buffs, it would slow me down too much.

    Follow does not follow in gates, teles, or stairs.  You would have to refollow every level change.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Pawain said:
    So this illegal multiboxing is not reliant on auto follow ?   Be good for all of us and more importantly the GM and Devs to know so only the wrong people get punished 

    and if auto follow is disabled for this event. Then anyone towing throwers are 100% using illegal means 

    this either gets them banned or they don’t risk it

    both resulting in harmonious play for everyone ?  Well apart from bard towing players in this instance ?
    Multiboxing will do the same keystroke/mouse movement to all the "team". So they can all move and do other macros at the same time.  They do not need to follow.  Search UO multibox and you will find it uses the EC only.  Not sure what capabilities the program that Yoshi advertises for has, it uses CC.

    What some of use have is multiple monitors and the mouse speed set high. I move my mouse 1/2 inch and it goes through 3 monitors. (My wife hates using my PC for work.)

    So we can click a screen and push a macro then move to the next.  It is not as fast as multiboxing since we have to push a button for each toon.

    Deceit is small and has too many doors and levels.  I am not dragging along a Bard for buffs, it would slow me down too much.

    Follow does not follow in gates, teles, or stairs.  You would have to refollow every level change.
    me too as it happens. 3 clients, 3 screens EC and pincos   I have enough trouble with Navrey looking after 3 accts :)

    Looking at these multi boxers I cannot believe the GM are not seeing it,  they ARE monitoring the event as several people have been asked question by them while in the dungeon. to the convoy of samps should be easy to see jsut by the way they all keep up with each other and auto target
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,804
    Ya I'm pretty clumsy.  Fastest thing I can do is cast WoD with them on a stationary target.  But you see the words appear with a little delay on each.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,023
    Merus said:
    @ keven2002 I never suggested the average player can do what I do, as well as I do.  I invested some real $ in a gaming PC capable of running 4 clients and supporting 4 monitors, and have spent years practicing it.  But I’m also not so advanced to think there aren’t people who are better at it than me… I’m sure there are.

    The fact that most players don’t understand what is possible within the bounds of legal play is part of the problem with what the OP suggests.  What’s worse is when those charged with enforcing the rules are equally ignorant.

    Does multi-boxing happen, I’m quite sure it does… but it’s not fair to suggest that everyone who uses auto follow must be a cheater just because they’ve invested like I have in order to do it well… or that auto follow should be removed because not everyone can/does utilize it well.
    I never said I had a problem with auto follow. I use autofollow during the Krampus runs when going to the same town in order to bump Krampus up. That said, I know how auto follow works and it's very obvious to me when someone is using auto follow via CC and someone is using an illegal client to use a different set of actions.

    Now if you do it so well that a GM watches you and thinks you are multiboxing then bravo to you and if that GM pulls you aside and you are able to explain then should be no harm no foul. But my thoughts are that you are a very small minority of the players that are actually using 4 monitors to actively play 4 instances of UO at once. Let's not play coy about it though when players are seamlessly doing actions over and over flawlessly.

    Pawain said:

    Multiboxing will do the same keystroke/mouse movement to all the "team". So they can all move and do other macros at the same time. 

    This.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,179
    keven2002 said:
    Sorry @ Merus but I disagree. I think the average (legal) UO player isn't anywhere near that level of power gaming that you are. In fact I'm reminded this quite often when I suggest on here that events end earlier than they do or could be more spawn and the hoards of people respond that "there isn't enough time to get enough drops" or "it's hard enough as it is". etc.

    So maybe you can toggle between screens that fast but the fact still remains that I'm literally seeing a train of chars fire multiple arrows at almost every target which includes skeletons/zombies instantly and they die instantly. There is no amount of human speed that could constantly do that. The problem is that I'm seeing them during the morning before GMs log on to action them.

    Agreed.

    I don't mind the following so much as the constant ID scan + auto attack which is not even close to being a realistic human reaction time. 

  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    There is a very simple way for a GM or a player to determine if it’s multi boxing or multi clienting, just be careful using it if you’re a player…

    As was pointed out, multi boxing does not rely on auto follow, so…

    Invis the lead character.  If the rest stop moving, then it’s legal multi client… if they all keep moving, it’s illegal.  I say be careful because if it’s abused I think it classifies as harassment.  But from a GM watching it’s a very legit test.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,804
    I can see it now. Jack is gonna invis the leader and get paged on and a GM will tell him he is harassing.

    But ya invis the leader to see if it is follow. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • HippoHippo Posts: 261
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
    Not even a macro just left cli k on the person to follow i believe 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Maximus_NeximusMaximus_Neximus Posts: 380
    edited October 2022
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
    No macro. Just hold the Alt key and single left click who you want to follow. That’s it. Sometimes I have to do it twice. But it will say “now following” when initially set. 
  • keven2002 said:
    Urge said:
    Kaz said:
    Super easy macro.
    I hope it helps folks understand that all is not always what it looks like, it could be that you don't understand how something is done.

    I am definitely not saying that cheating isn't happening, just bringing awareness that some presumptions might be false.


     The target system has ways been bugged and lagged. 

    I haven't had a chance to get into deceit but I assume it's exactly like it was in destard. A mob spawns and is instantly killed by an ai ranged player. 

    100%. Literally as soon as something spawns (level 4 crypts specifically) 1 or 2 archers are killing it before I can even hit a button.

    Yep, the Lvl 4 Crypts get overrun with multiboxers, especially in the late hours (after GMs are no longer on). The other night i saw 4 separate multiboxers (each with their own group of chars) in the Crypts.
    As someone that has extensive experience with CC's auto following when multi-clienting, i know the difference between what CC Auto Follow vs Multiboxing looks like. This is most definitely Multiboxing that i'm seeing. The movement is too precise, the chars are consistently within 1-2 tiles of each other for cross healing, and they all attack at the same moment.
  • Craig_JonesCraig_Jones Posts: 5
    edited October 2022
    Yeah guys !!! LETS block all assistance soft and will be playing same as 25 years ago !!! with double click on pickaxe for mining


  • Auto follow isnt the problem!  Its the 3rd party attack scripts they run on theyre chars that is.  Its not multiboxing, its seperate attack scripts loaded on each client.  Its been ridiculous in Uo for years but is not enforced at all.  The same thing is used for those people who farm places like svaetra and other areas with 5-10 chars.  Maybe one day the devs will wake up.
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,453
    edited October 2022
    Merus said:
    The biggest problem is that GMs aren’t educated enough (most times) to actually tell the difference between a good multi-client player and a multi-boxer… especially if they are standing still.

    I regularly play 4 accounts and have 4 monitors.  With basic CC macros bound to the same key for each client, I can easily manually move my mouse over each client and hit the macro key for all 4 in about 1-1.5 seconds.  From the casual observer it looks like they all do the same thing at the same time, even though they don’t.  Add in a row for toggle primary ability to the CC targeting macro shown above and it’s super easy for me to chain AI on 4 accounts for attacking the nearest mob.

    I readily admit to using the same strategy while using auto-follow in CC.  If you see me playing it very much looks like an auto attack script because it usually takes auto-follow about 1-2 seconds for the following clients to stop moving once I’ve stopped the lead character… during which I’ve hit the macro on each screen.  Again from the casual observer it looks like they auto attack the exact moment they stop moving (ranged AI won’t attack until the character is stationary).

    I’ve been playing with this setup for years, so I have lots of practice and consider myself pretty decent at it, but I’m quite certain there are players who do it better than me.

    Just because you can’t do it, or fail to understand how another player can, does not mean that the player needs to be banned or the functionality removed from the game.  That’s the same kind of broken thinking that has some schools removing AP classes because not everyone is smart enough to be in them.
    LOL...that's all. 4 monitors lol.....1.5 seconds...lol...Please get a selfie of you sitting in front of your 4 monitors...you can blank out your taskbar on all 4 before you post it..

    Or even better, @Kyronix, please find out who Merus' characters are, and spend all of 5 minutes following him. Check your logs for the commands he uses from his IP address for all 4 accounts and come back and tell us if he's telling the truth or not. Please ?
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    edited October 2022
    Merus said:
    The biggest problem is that GMs aren’t educated enough (most times) to actually tell the difference between a good multi-client player and a multi-boxer… especially if they are standing still.

    I regularly play 4 accounts and have 4 monitors.  With basic CC macros bound to the same key for each client, I can easily manually move my mouse over each client and hit the macro key for all 4 in about 1-1.5 seconds.  From the casual observer it looks like they all do the same thing at the same time, even though they don’t.  Add in a row for toggle primary ability to the CC targeting macro shown above and it’s super easy for me to chain AI on 4 accounts for attacking the nearest mob.

    I readily admit to using the same strategy while using auto-follow in CC.  If you see me playing it very much looks like an auto attack script because it usually takes auto-follow about 1-2 seconds for the following clients to stop moving once I’ve stopped the lead character… during which I’ve hit the macro on each screen.  Again from the casual observer it looks like they auto attack the exact moment they stop moving (ranged AI won’t attack until the character is stationary).

    I’ve been playing with this setup for years, so I have lots of practice and consider myself pretty decent at it, but I’m quite certain there are players who do it better than me.

    Just because you can’t do it, or fail to understand how another player can, does not mean that the player needs to be banned or the functionality removed from the game.  That’s the same kind of broken thinking that has some schools removing AP classes because not everyone is smart enough to be in them.
    LOL...that's all. 4 monitors lol.....1.5 seconds...lol...Please get a selfie of you sitting in front of your 4 monitors...you can blank out your taskbar on all 4 before you post it..

    Or even better, @ Kyronix, please find out who Merus' characters are, and spend all of 5 minutes following him. Check your logs for the commands he uses from his IP address for all 4 accounts and come back and tell us if he's telling the truth or not. Please ?
    I actually have several videos on YouTube.  Here is a link to one I recorded during the city invasions where I was accused of multi-boxing.  No need to blank the task bar, easy to see nothing but UO, UOA and the video recording software is running.  You can watch the mouse move, but its fast.  Pay particular attention to the "all follow me" command... the mouse moves to each screen, but its very fast.  Its well over an hour long, so its not like I did just a couple minutes either.



    Desk is a little messy, so don’t judge.


  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,804
    Ha that's a clean desk.

    He has all the same monitors, mine are all different sizes.
    Notice the gamepad on the left and mouse on the right, much easier to play with those.

    @Garth_Grey are you still a caveman that starts fire with 2 sticks?

    I have a Serta iComfort chair, rated for 12 hours of sitting.  That grey wrist pad is probably older than a lot of yalls kids. yuk


    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 832
    edited October 2022
    Auto-follow isn't the problem...  the attack-scripts are... and if someone is running attack scripts they're not likely to be using auto-follow as opposed to multi-boxing in the first place.

    Auto-follow needs to be reset every time the 'followed' character:

    1) enters a dungeon, following chars need to enter and re-follow again.

    2) invis'd, following chars need to re-follow again. (if the followed player teleports it has the same result)) * magery users could invis the followed player, if the 'following char(s)' don't stop within a few steps it's not auto-follow.

    3) followed char gets too far ahead of following chars (out of range).  (won't likely happen in an event like this), unless followed chars get stuck on a corner or something. -it would slow the process causing it not to be worth it on some levels, especially areas with a lot of doors.

    Another thing, Auto-follow doesn't always stop all characters on the same tile.  this is probably the easiest way for observing players to rule-out auto-follow, and safely assume it's a multi-boxer. -page away.

    As far as GM's not being educated enough to know the difference between a skilled player & a script.

    I've only had one personal experience since dec-'97 where a GM had asked me to demonstrate what I was doing, and then he let me return to playing afterwards.  which was dodging bola's before the bola had the long delay it has now. it had to have been in like 2005-08' era when i played siege a lot.  I gave the GM a few bolas and had him throw the bolas at me, I wish i remembered the name of the GM though.  -bolas had a delay more comparable to 'magic arrow' and you could physically see the bola coming toward you just before it would dismount you.


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Just to reiterate, the GMs have banned accounts for using autofollow because they think its multiboxing.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 832
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
      Hold Alt and left click the character you wish to follow
    .
     When it works, it'll say "now following", then have the followed character move.


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,453
    You also can't stay in combat mode in the classic client, when you hit alt/tab to go back to another client.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 832
    You also can't stay in combat mode in the classic client, when you hit alt/tab to go back to another client.
     Mine doesn't tab out of war when using alt+tab. (windows 7 & 10)
     it would if you accidentally hit tab before holding alt though.

      I generally switch clients by clicking the one i want to swap to anyway, so even if it did it wouldn't bother me.

    In windows 10 if you want to click to switch clients, you may need to change the taskbar setting "combine taskbar buttons", i believe it's set to combine multiples of the same program by default.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,453
    edited October 2022
    CovenantX said:
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
      Hold Alt and left click the character you wish to follow
    .
     When it works, it'll say "now following", then have the followed character move.


    I look forward to the players that say they can do that on 4-10 clients in 2.6 seconds along with sending combat special moves etc...all while using a stack of pennies to hold the key down..gtfooh. I know @Kyronix and others sit at home and read this hogwash and laugh like there's no tomorrow.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 832
    edited October 2022
    CovenantX said:
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
      Hold Alt and left click the character you wish to follow
    .
     When it works, it'll say "now following", then have the followed character move.


    I look forward to the players that say they can do that on 4-10 clients in 2.6 seconds along with sending combat special moves etc...all while using a stack of pennies to hold the key down..gtfooh. I know @ Kyronix and others sit at home and read this hogwash and laugh like there's no tomorrow.
       i can do 10 clients in ~3 seconds, but auto-follow has nothing to do with it i never do it for things like these ToT events cause it would be slow AF compared to one sampire with area damage & double slayers.

    Every character using the same macros would make the biggest difference.
    combat specials get toggled on, and wait for the next weapon swing (which occurs while swapping to other clients) to proc, it's very simple.

    This Video is old (2016) of me playing 9 chars in SG. the other 2 chars on the 2nd PC are just there to have a chance at a drop when the roof is completed,  I've since made the other 2 chars +1 upgraded EJ account into 3 tamers, so now their pets can at least speed up killing the bosses & add a bit more loot to the corpse at the end.

     I'm sure i'm a little rusty with it now since i haven't done SG in prolly close to a year now... but I'm sure it won't take long to get up to speed again.. it's like riding a bike.
    with newfound interest (bots might actually be actioned) I'll play UO more often.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,804
    CovenantX said:
    Hippo said:
    Is there a legit macro for CC auto follow? And is it a macro I can use the CC macro menu to setup? Regards, Hippo
      Hold Alt and left click the character you wish to follow
    .
     When it works, it'll say "now following", then have the followed character move.


    I look forward to the players that say they can do that on 4-10 clients in 2.6 seconds along with sending combat special moves etc...all while using a stack of pennies to hold the key down..gtfooh. I know @ Kyronix and others sit at home and read this hogwash and laugh like there's no tomorrow.
    I could run 6 clients on my screens they are all 25in and above and I never need to Alt tab, again are you still a caveman? My mouse moves about 1/2 inch to go from left monitor to the right one. How long does it take you to move your mouse 1/4 inch and click then hit a macro. I use both hands when I play. Amazing what you can do when you use technology that has been around for years. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 832
    edited October 2022
    Pawain said:
    I could run 6 clients on my screens they are all 25in and above and I never need to Alt tab, again are you still a caveman? My mouse moves about 1/2 inch to go from left monitor to the right one. How long does it take you to move your mouse 1/4 inch and click then hit a macro. I use both hands when I play. Amazing what you can do when you use technology that has been around for years. 
     I could do that, but I'd rather have multi PC's and a single monitor on each, as i currently do.
     3 Pcs but i have barely even played UO on the new one.

    been busy going through the darksouls series & elden ring, not been playing UO much until this event started up (still only play for ~1 hr a day), it's boring in trammel man...





    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
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