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5 slot pet has AI Cap of 35 sometimes

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    “In fact, basing the max AI damage on pets HP, could actually be make having high HP a NEGATIVE property on pets for PvP (or if the pet has dragon breath then any amount of HP higher than the minimum required for max damage dragon breath). I’ll perform some more testing to demonstrate, and get some figures. 

    Because if you can only deal low damage to a pet with lower HP, the owner of pet can heal the pet easier as the amount of damage that the owner can heal is NOT based on pet max HP.

    EG if you can deal only a max damage of 50hp each swing this can be healed with Magery greater heal, whereas if you deal 150 damage, this would take 3 x greater heals which the owner of the pet is not able to keep up with… 

    And, having lower HP and lower AI damage cap means the attacker can’t leech as much stamina/mana/life.

    I will test 2 pets and show results when char copy is active. But my active game experience I am having more difficulty killing lower HP pets - and I believe for these reasons”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    “ @Khyro of UO-CAH
    I’ll assume you must’ve tested this on all pets already
    your pvp wildfire ostard guide encourages higher HP?
    https://www.uo-cah.com/training/wildfire-ostard-training-guide


    For reference at 500hp AI hits 71,
    at 1003 hp AI hits 143

    So adding HP it seems is harming the pet in PvP if it doesn't have dragon breath, (from memory i think something like 633 hp is max dragon breath damage) at great training points expense too.
    Bearing in mind it's not possible to kill a pet without using AI currently (with the owner healing it)
    “
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    “(Sorry I think 633 was minimum int for max mindblast damage in PvP, minimum hp for max dragon breath damage is less than 600hp)
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    "I am having difficulty explaining the issue to UO-CAH.

    Here videos show that because of the bad formula for AI being based on pet HP, demonstration that adding HP makes the pet worse!! (contrary to UO-CAH advice to add HP to pvp pets).

    (Armor ignore is the only way to kill pets as they have 73-80 all resist)

    This is just a terrible formula"

    part 1 of 2


    part 2 of 2





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  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 237
    Difficulty explaining and not being goaded into a response by a known troll are two completely different things. However, I guess I'll respond since you seem to be unable to grasp this system, or have ulterior motives.

    This change went in with Publish 98 back in 2017.


    It's designed to normalize pet survivability in PvP by scaling direct damage against the pet based on HP. Here's a handy chart:



    You will notice that the Hits To Kill (HTK) is targeted to be around 8 (7 and slight change on most HP ranges, not accounting for HPR).

    Looking at this data you can see the design intent was to normalize how long pets live in PvP by scaling damage they receive based on their HP.

    You claim having an extremely low health pet is an advantage (and claiming people are exploiting by doing this), however this just opens up the pet to be nuked down by casters easier, as there is no SDI cap against pets in PvP (per the same Pub98 patch notes). So to me it seems like a choice the player should make based on who they are fighting.

    How do you deal with a mage spamming Greater Heal on a dexxer you are fighting. Do you just sit there and endlessly hit the dexxer and then complain he cannot die because the mage is spam healing him? Or do you use tactics and Mortal Strike/Poison the dexxer, or switch to the healer instead? If you can't kill a pet being healed by it's owner, seems like you should resort to using different tactics.
    https://www.uo-cah.com
    Home of the Pet Intensity Calculator, Pet Planner, Trainable Animal Bestiary, and other Tools, Guides, and Information. 

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2022
    “I have not said anywhere that people are exploiting having low hp on a pet.

    If you read the thread I already quoted publish 98. You are not providing any additional info.

    I am just showing in video of someone healing a pet as a demonstration. Yes you would target the owner/healer in PvP, but I am showing to demonstrate the bad pet AI formula as this is about pet AI. 
    As during pvp at some point the owner would heal the pet. 

    The differing HP values in these videos were an extreme example as a demonstration only to show the benefits (or lack of) of adding HP.

    Having low hp does not open a pet up to being killed by spells though. As it’s not possible to kill a pet with even only 400 hp (while the owner is alive to heal it)with spells as they have 73 ish resists. 
    NB casting curse spell on a pet does not lower its resists (perhaps it should).
    (See earlier video, even with 100 sdi it dealt 15 damage lightnings, you could make that 30 damage with a bird slayer if it’s an ostard) 
    But greater heal heals 50 damage and is same casting time as lightning. It’s not possible to wear a spell damage suit for pvp also as you would be killed by the player or pet due to having weaknesses elsewhere. Maximum spell damage you could realistically have in pvp is around 40-60. 
    Again it’s unlikely even that you can use a slayer as for magic spells you’ll need to arm a spell book so you’d require wrestling or anat/eval. 
    I have killed a bane dragon with dragon slayer spell book before but it’s not possible to kill something that doesn’t have a single slayer vulnerability with spells. EG ostard, and definitely not possible to kill a nightmare (no slayer) with spells. Even if a mage had infinite mana. 

    The two main points of question here are.
    do you not think the number of swings required to kill a pet should differ from 400 to 1000hp considering the high training point expense to increase HP?

    and do you not think a slayer should be required to deal maximum damage AI? 

    PS: thanks for the PvP advice I am not good at PvP, ask anyone on Atlantic I am an easy kill”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “(Just to raise a slight discrepancy, cannot honor a pet as it counts as player. Yet cursing pet does not lower max resists…)”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2022

    quickblade said:
    For now yea if you equip a weapon make sure you have a minimum of 39dmg (or 40?not sure if it rounds up or down for that) , so you can pull the buffed up AIs all the time

    "i was using a broadsword at 40-52 damage and hit 35 damage 2 times in a row in the field on a pet, so have had to change back to longsword 43-55, so the math is off somewhere."
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "(41-53 is minumum damage to guarantee max damage AI)"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2022
    "As further evidence of increasing a pets HP being a detrimental attribute in PvP (despite UOCAH's advice), the hit area effect combined with AI will hit the pet owner harder vs a higher HP pet, will try to take some decent in the field footage to demonstrate"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited December 2022
    “Due to this crazy formula for pet AI damage, @Khyro I am now seeing a new generation of PvP pets in the field with no more than 350hp. Perhaps you should update uocah advice.

    As demonstrated increasing hp is giving PvP pets negative attributes:

    • harder to heal as receive more damage through AI
    • attacker receives greater life/stamina/mana leech 
    • pet more vulnerable to hit fatigue as receives more damage
    • owner receives more damage from hit area effect from attacker.

    it’s very poor formula for pet AI damage, should just work the same as AI on wild animals, as currently you don’t even need to use a slayer vs pets…”



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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    Other than you love violating the TOS is there a point to this post?
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited December 2022
    "It was not really an issue before because all rideable pets were invincible in PvP anyway because there was a bug where you could heal it while mounted while nobody could damage them, but now people have to play the game as intended as they fixed that exploit, so new generation of <350hp pets being used"
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,271
    edited December 2022
    Can you post proof that you are not able to kill someone's horse?  Maybe don't use AI on low HP pets? 

    Few per types start with less than 350 HP.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    Pawain said:
     Maybe don't use AI on low HP pets? 

    Few per types start with less than 350 HP.

    "I meant 5 slot rideable mounts were invincible sorry haha, but they fixed that, i did think about not using AI but with 75/80 all resists, AI i think is still best damage output, i can't see being able to hit harder than 50 damage on a nightmare, i hit very hard double strike with 2 handed axe, but it's very slow, maybe if attacker uses onslaught, but i'm sure AI will always be most efficient vs 75/80 resist pet, remeber too that curse spell does not lower a pet resist."
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2023
    "here is example of how UOCAH on the current game mechanics gives not good advice to tell people to put stats in HP for PvP pets.

    This mare must have over 650hp if i deal 90+ damage.
    This guy can't even heal his mare with FC4 chivalry

    And i am not even playing on a warrior, just playing on a mage hitting it with AI

    Apologies there is other bug present here where health bars not updating sorry.

    But i think it's just bad formula, adding HP to pet should not be negative property for PvP, so rather than asking UOCAH to adjust their advice, really this crazy formula should be looked at, AI damage should just be same as PvM"




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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,271
    edited March 2023
    FYI: Chiv healing gives the lowest results of the healing spells for pet or player.  It's near useless in PvM on a pet taking damage.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2023
    “Chiv heals less on pet over person?
    it’s fastest heal per second on players when you have FC4. 

    Did not know it has reduced healing powers vs pets

    you want to try vs me with your mage with veterinary and pet?
    i killed yesterday pet with one mage and one mystic healer trying to keep it alive

    Bring your pet with highest hp”

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2023
    “ pawain where you getting your info from? how many people with FC4/6 chiv you killed?

    can heal 39 damage with close wounds, can cast it nearly 2 times in time it takes to cast greater heal which heals 55.

    why you have to constantly write false things in threads about pvp issues when you never been to fel?  But even in tram you should know these things as you can cast these spells in tram”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited March 2023



    "Sorry this particular char has low chiv/karma, and lower magery, so assume maximum for both 49-58 for 120 magery (average 53.5), chiv 36-39, (average 37.5)

    over 1.5 seconds:
    for magery you heal 107 average
    for chiv you heal 112.5 average

    over one minute chiv heals an extra 220 damage on average if my math is any good.




    we can do same for cleansing winds:

    lowest common denominator is 2.5 seconds:
    mysticism: 120 average
    Chiv: 187.5

    over 1 minute that gives chivalry additional  1620hp

    It's same math tram or fel,
    but thanks for your insight for chiv giving lowest healing results for pets and players....
    "


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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,271
    edited March 2023
    Yes most players who have taming and a pet will not have 120 Chivalry because even with no Vet you have to have your fighting skills and 2 Taming Skills.  
    So it is very cramped

    My Archer/Tamer with a little over GM Chiv does some pretty lame heals. I have him run Consume when needed because the Chiv heals will not be enough.

    Cleansing winds is lower because it is a group heal.

    120 Magery heals Baby!  Everyone loves my Bless and G Heals.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "lol i kill 5 slot nightmare and bane dragon 2 vs 1 because of bad armor ignore formula making this, #easygame

    needless to say pet owners death swiftly followed

    i don't like to win by use exploit against people"
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