Kyronix, are you sure that LUCK is really working ?
@Kyronix ;
You mentioned here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/59520/#Comment_59520
Well, my Tamer is wearing some 2,385 and I get, on average , 5 drops an hour in Fire Dungeon...
Are you sure that, hidden somewhere in the Code, there is no some anti-Tamers line of Code that for some odd reasons either nullifies or greatly reduces the worn Luck Bonus for Tamers ?
The reason that I am asking, is that I keep hearing of Warriors with little to no Luck worn, having like 12+ drops an hour....
Yes, I move all over the place and kill anything from regulars to Paragons....
Yes, I often need to inviso to break aggro (my weapon is my pet, not my character....) but this is normal for Tamers.... of course that Warriors who are toe to toe Fighters have no need to hide... I do make sure to be visible when the MoB dies....
I mean, 2,385 is quite some Luck, and the drop rate should NOT be so much abysmally lower as compared to Warriors... hence, I need to think, something must be very wrong here, either the way that worn Luck is factored in to determine the chance at a Wildfire Artifact drop, or there has to me something in the Code that penalizesTamers specifically, and that nullifies the worn Luck or greatly reduces it.
Anyway, since this is not fun at all, and increases enormously the grinding work and, thus, the alienation and time needed at being able to get a reward, if you could PLEASE look into this, it would be a very nice thing.
Thanks.
You mentioned here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/59520/#Comment_59520
Well, my Tamer is wearing some 2,385 and I get, on average , 5 drops an hour in Fire Dungeon...
Are you sure that, hidden somewhere in the Code, there is no some anti-Tamers line of Code that for some odd reasons either nullifies or greatly reduces the worn Luck Bonus for Tamers ?
The reason that I am asking, is that I keep hearing of Warriors with little to no Luck worn, having like 12+ drops an hour....
Yes, I move all over the place and kill anything from regulars to Paragons....
Yes, I often need to inviso to break aggro (my weapon is my pet, not my character....) but this is normal for Tamers.... of course that Warriors who are toe to toe Fighters have no need to hide... I do make sure to be visible when the MoB dies....
I mean, 2,385 is quite some Luck, and the drop rate should NOT be so much abysmally lower as compared to Warriors... hence, I need to think, something must be very wrong here, either the way that worn Luck is factored in to determine the chance at a Wildfire Artifact drop, or there has to me something in the Code that penalizesTamers specifically, and that nullifies the worn Luck or greatly reduces it.
Anyway, since this is not fun at all, and increases enormously the grinding work and, thus, the alienation and time needed at being able to get a reward, if you could PLEASE look into this, it would be a very nice thing.
Thanks.
Kyronix said:Add more luck. Drop rate is using same calcs as before.popps said:I worked the spawn about 1 and a half hour and got 4 drops...Pawain said:I don't feel so bad now. Others are getting 4 to 5 drops per hour.
I think that @ Kyronix may have reduced the drop rate for this Event because I was having a higher drop rate in the previous dungeons...
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Just a hint, with these events its an advantage to hit as many mobs as possible.
That does not mean, to my opinion, that other Templates should be so much disadvantaged...
And I suspect that there "might" be something in the Code, maybe from several years back, which might be putting Tamers, specifically, at a disadvantage...
Since 2,385 worn Luck is no trivial Luck, but is a significant amount of worn Luck, it SHOULD definitely make a difference, and also a significant one, in the chances at getting a Treasures of Artifact drop.... yet, as my experience shows, it does not.
I do move all over the place and kill anything that I see, and try to do it as fast as I can, regulars and Paragons alike...
The only one thing which I have to do, is to inviso my Tamer from time to time to break aggro... but this is normal for a Tamer. Yet, it should be largely compensated by my worn Luck... but it is not.
I still get a much lower drop rate as compared to Warriors, and quite a lot less.
This, of course, causes me to have to spend way more time and grinding effort in order to get the same Rewards... and it is not funny...
All I am saying, is that 2,385 worn Luck should PAY and bring home results, "better" results at getting drops as Kyronix has mentioned in his Post which I linked in the OP.
If this is not happening, and it is NOT happening as I have been experiencing, to my Tamer, THEN, I need to conclude that something in the Code is not working properly... either in the way that worn Luck plays out, OR, that perhaps, who knows, there is some very old Code anti-Tamers who make their efforts at increasing their drop chances by wearing more Luck worthless...
I hope that this can be looked at, because, at least from my point of view, it is not funny...
However, players in Felucca are taking advantage of the champion spawn that is in Fire to farm large numbers of mobs, more mobs killed means more drop chances. Are you sure the players claiming 12 drops per hour aren't in Fel?
To be truthful, I don't really care if someone is getting more drops than I am, as long as I'm getting enough to be able to exchange them for the items I want from the trader.
Does your tamer kill mobs as quickly as a warrior? if you kill less mobs, you'll get less drops. Nothing to do with any 'anti tamer' coding, which I'm 99% certain is only a figment of someone's imagination.
Because, this is the "core" of my argument....
I am not seeing so much Luck, and it ain't a little, making any difference in my Tamer's chances at getting a "Treasures of..." Artifact drop...
Which, according to @Kyronix post which I mentioned in the OP, should not be... the worn LUCK, and the more the better, "should" definitely impact the drops chances...
It should make a difference, to my understanding, and quite some, yet, it seems that I am not seeing it.... and this is quite frustrating to say the least.
Of some yes, they are players I see working the Dungeon on Trammel with me, and asking here and there I get most of them mentioning around that drop rate, and in Trammel....
I think that I am killing quite fast, perhaps not "as fast" as a Warrior can, BUT, as I said, my little slower killing rate as compared to a Warrior, "should" definitely be compensated by the amount of Luck which I can wear.... I mean, how much Luck can a Warrior wear ?
"If" worn Luck worked, I would imagine, with some 2,385 worn Luck, I should get, at the very least, as many drop rates a Warrior can get per hour, if not more, considered the high Luck I wear...., this, if Luck was to really be a significant, impacting thing, as I would seem to understand from Kyronix's Post which I mentioned in the OP...
The only other thing which I can possibly think about, if the Code for worn Luck is fine, is that, somewhere, from Years back, there might be some code disadvantaging Tamers, specifically, somehow...
I mean, over the Years, quite a lot of stuff that works against Tamers has been implemented, pets doing half damage, MoBs always retarget making it difficult for the Tamer to stay there and heal the pet, MoBs do AoE damage making it almost impossible to use Veterinary to heal a pet, saved a few, rare exceptions, way slow casting spells make it harder for a Tamer to keep up helping one's own pet, pets always changing target even if the Tamer has 120 Animal Lore and 120 Animal Taming making it extremely annoying to always say All Kill and target the one Mob that one wants killed, the pet Ball of summoning having lots of places where it does not work, Tamers being revealed all the time and thus having a hard time being able to stay by their pet to help it, pets' pathfinding being very lacking, oddily enough, Paragons can very well go around ANYTHING and get to the player being targeted but a pet cannot use the same pathfinding that Paragons use and gets stuck anywhere and so easily ? And I could go on and on and on with stuff that makes playing a Tamer way less enjoyable and effective ....
So, I would not be surprised to learn that worn Luck might also have been made, somewhow, ineffective or much less effective for Tamers, specifically... I mean, it does not look like that Tamers might have been loved much by Developers, over the Years.... who knows why....
Perhaps, they might wrongly think that fighting through proxy of a pet is not the same as fighting toe to toe as a Warrior ?
I say wrongly, considering how a Tamer, on average, dies more often as compared to a Warrior....
I do not know what it is, I just am seeing that wearing 2,385 Luck and getting an average of 5 drops an hour is way, but WAY too low and something might possibly be wrong here, wherever that might be....
I mean, to get 200 drops for an Ostard which, of course, would be the wanted Reward for a Tamer, would take, at this drops rate, 40 playing hours of grinding....
At 2 hours per day, EVERY DAY, it comes up as 20 days or, if one can only play 1 hour a day, which the average player with a life to live, would more likely be able to, would mean 40 days for 1 Ostard....
To others, this might sound acceptable, I happen to see it as way too much.
Oh well....
"Popps' luck is a little low for a luck suit, without using a statue i have 2715 luck on my tamer, but i do get more drops on a warrior simply because i kill 10 x more mobs (at the fel champ), but i don't get 10x more drops, maybe 50% more tops, so for me luck is working on a tamer
(3865 luck with a statue)
Don't forget the warriors can gain a further 1000 luck on paragons by using honor and gaining perfection (although the buff description does not tell you so, bug report raised 2018 Missing buff/debuff icons - Ultima Online Forums (uo.com)), so even if i had 0 luck on my warrior (i happen to have 200 accidentally from yukio earrings etc), i get 1150 from use of a statue, plus 1000 from honor, = 2350
That's close to Popps' luck but killing 10 x as many mobs.
I imagine a sampire with just 1000 luck would do really very well"
Thanks.
As in regards to Warriors killing faster as Tamers, yes, but higher Luck that a Tamer wears should offset for that...
And, if as you say a Warrior can get "also" Luck and, therefore, the Developers are worried that then, coupling their faster kill rate PLUS worn Luck Warriors could then get too much of a ridicolous drop rate, they could code worn Luck working "incrementally"...
Since only non-Warriors can really wear higher Luck, like 2,000+, the "Luck Code" could work in a way to provide a small increase at lower worn Luck, but become very higher chances at higher Luck worn...
This way, Warriors could not benefit from both, their higher kill rate + Luck worn but would only really benefit mostly from their faster kill rate and a little from their 1,000 to 2,000 Luck worn, if they can get there with the Honor and Perfection mechanics as well as using the Luck Statue....
Otherwise, do we really want to only see or mostly see Warriors at these Events ?
Unless the Developers do something to help the drop rate of other Templates, OF COURSE that players will all turn to using Warriors.... I mean, ain't that obvious ???
And bye bye diversity of Templates in Ultima Online...
Is this that you guys want, @Kyronix ?
Droprate is based on probability, but theres to many background variables involved, i wouldnt even start setting up an statistical experiment on drops pr hour.
Just play the game and have fun.
@popps are you doing anything to help your pet kill stuff? Or does your luck suit prevent you from killing things faster? Probably why you think it is not working.
That is, wearing Luck should be at the OTHER end of doing raw DPS....
Whereas, high Luck with low kills should get the same drops as low luck with high kills...
Currently, to my viewing, this is not working.
What works to get more drops, is only high rate kills.....
Worn Luck should be precisely working to "compensate" for the less kills....
Kill less, but with more worn Luck, and one should still get a high drop rate...
This is not what is happening, to my finding... and I think this should be looked at and be corrected.
For the record, this past hour, with 2,385 Luck worn, I only got 4 drops....
And yes, I killed several Paragon Fire Daemons, Paragon Lich Lords and Liches, Paragon Fire Elementals (only Paragon I cannot kill is a Paragon Balron...).... yet, the Luck worn did not help jack....
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/player/stats/luck/
Systems Affected by Luck
Luck will affect the following systems,
The way luck influences each of these systems varies, but generally the better the luck you have, the better your chances at achieving more of a particular reward, achieving a reward based on your loot roll, achieving a rare reward, or getting additional chances at more rewards.
Yet, with 2,385 Luck worn, my drop rate is abysmally low (yes, I consider 5 drops an hour really low, 40 hours for an Ostard ?? That is 40 days, straight, of someone who can play 1 hour per day which is what the average player with a life can usually play....) so, something here seems to me not to be working as it should when it comes to Luck worn and how it "should" affect the "Treasures of" Artifacts drop rate and how it actually "does" (NOT) affect it, at least for a Tamer ...
I mean, 2,385 Luck worn is quite high, maybe not the highest, but still.....
Never be afraid to challenge the status quo
Luck is working as intended, it will impact both the intensity of randomly generated magical items created as minor artifacts from Treasures of ... and it will influence whether you get one of those minor artifacts.
So, how do you explain then the significant higher drop rate that Warriors with much lower Luck benefit from (12+ per hour) as compared to what an "average" Tamer sees (give or take 5 per hour) ?
Does it mean that the higher kill rate that Warriors can pull off as compared to Tamers, even with a significantly lower Luck, has a MUCH higher impact (more then twice as much) on the Wildfire minor Artifacts drop rate as compared to less kills + more Luck from a different type of Template?
That is, number of kills has been given in the Code a much higher weight in terms of "Treasures of" Minor Artifact drops, as compared to what weight Luck has instead been given ?
Also, could you please kindly explain at the Max Luck possible of 4,000 (how does one get there if I may ask ?), what would the actual drop chance Bonus be, for these "Treasures of" Minor Artifacts?
Is this "Luck vs. Chance" calculator at https://www.uoguide.com/Luck valid ?
Because, according to it, a 100% chance equals to 3,982 Luck worn while, with my 2,385 luck worn, I "should" experience a 75.229% chance at a drop....
But what does that truly mean, a 75% chance ?
When does the engine make a roll to see if a player should have a drop ?
With every single kill regardless of what Monster is killed ?
Or does one need to accumulate "points" from killing stuff and then, when they hit the set threshold, they then get rolled for a drop and, in my case, I have a 75% chance of being awarded a drop ?
If I get bad luck, I would be "re-rolled" at the next kill, still under a 75% probability ?
And as one gets a drop, then the "points" get zeroed and one starts over again to accumulate new points from kills?
If this is how it works, no wonder that Warriors have such a high drop rate per hour... I mean, even with low Luck, they kinda "force" the system by re-rolling over and over and over at every kill.... something which other Templates which cannot reach the same kill rate, can only dream about, evenif they have a significantly higher Luck...
If this is how it has been Designed, perhaps it could be advisable to put in some "balancing" mechanics to make drops rates more fair among different Templates being able to experience different kill rates?
Thank you for the kind availability to aswer these questions, I am just trying to understand how a player can try to better his/her drop chances WITHOUT having to bend to the mainstream and have to necessarily make a Warrior to get a reasonable amount of drops per hour when they enjoy playing, for example, a Tamer and not a Warrior...
Thanks.
Sorry, we "cross-posted" with one another, I just edited the Post to which you replied so, you might have not seen this part...
I was asking the following in my Edit in the Post above....
Now, with your comment in your last reply :
One would imagine that then, if they had the Max Luck possible, (3,982 ?), they should get a drop (100% chance) each and every 1 creature that they kill, whether it is a slime or a Paragon Balron...
Is that what you are actually saying in your last reply ?
Because, if this is what you are saying, then, even with my "low" 2,385 Luck, at least according to that UOGuide Calculator, I "should" get a 75% chance at a drop for every single creature that I kill, be it a slime or a Paragon Balron....
And over the course of an hour, from the weakest slime to the toughest Paragon, I kill hundreds of creatures.... even if I were to roll bad into that 25% of "no drop" rather then in that 75% of "yes drop" most of the time, over the course of an hour I should definitely get way more then the 5 drops which I get on average....
So, something here does not sound right to me.
Thank you for the patience and for taking the time to answer all this, but could you please be more precise ?
I am trying to really understand here whether I can better my drops results through Luck thus still being able to use a Tamer template, or whether I have to finally give up and have to make a Warrior as pretty much most players have done already....
But I would really NOT have to be forced to play a Template which I would not enjoy, and leave a Template that I enjoy playing, only because Tamers, even when wearing a good Luck suit, have such a poor drops' rate...
Thank you So much again.
Much more likely that it’s something like:
normal mob with no luck: 2%
How quickly you kill with either scenario still has a huge impact on your drops, as does RL luck.
Yes, indeed, but I cannot help not seeing how, the way that these Events that we have been having now on a regular basis, the "Treasures of..." Events, or however we want to call them, I seem to understand from your explainations, might have, as a result of their Design, whether intended or casual, the favouring of the Template that can kill the most.
And this, incidentally, in the end promotes just "that " type of Template, doesn't it ?
And that type of Template, does not seem to vary much, but is quite sistematically the Warrior Template and its variations (Sampire, Paladin, Dragoon, "Modern" Sampire etc. etc.) thanking to its ability to kill more and faster, as compared to other Templates....
I was hoping, but I now realize how my hope was wrongly based, that the Luck worn, was being used in the Design of these Events, as a "balancing" factor among different Templates with different killing abilities...
That is, it was my hope, that while Warriors could kill more and faster, but given their high specialization they could not "invest" much in Luck on their Suits, this type of Template would mostly rely on high kills and speed of killing for their drops' rate.
Whereas, instead, other Templates with a lower number of kills in that same time frame (for example Tamers), could rely on high worn Luck to increase their drops and "compensate" for their lower kill rate.
I had hopes that, in the end, "moreless", high kills for one type of Template (Warriors), and high worn Luck for other types of Templates (for example Tamers), would "balance out " and moreless produce for those respective Templates, the same rate of drops per hour.
I seem to understand that, instead, what matters most, is the sheer number of kills per time frame and that Luck is only a "side" bonus, not really a major, significant one as the kill rate is...
That is, that Luck might be a nice thing to have, but nowhere as impactful as the killing rate is.
Oh well, it is not what I wanted to hear but, at least, now I know that my attempts of wanting to still try to play a Template other then a Warrior was a futile one... and that if I want to increase my drop rates to a reasonable rate, I have no other option but that of jumping on the bandwagon and just use a Warrior for these Events, as pretty much mostly everyone else has been doing...
Thank you very much for your kind patience and informative answers.
P.S. I am not sure whether this might be true or not but, I was told by some other players (doing these Events with Warriors, of course...), that actually staying the fight until the MoB dies, seems, to their findings, to be not important towards getting awarded "points" needed to get a drop, but that which only seems to matter, is the landing of enough hits to get looting rights...
Therefore, there seem to be players out there, I seem to understand, just running all over the place and quickly landing a few hits per MoB and then moving onto the next one and letting others actually to have to spend the time to kill them for good....
In this way, without actually having to spend the time until the MoB is dead, they can greatly increase their drops rate since they only spend a few seconds with each MoB (and landing high damage with their Slayer Weapons) before passing onto the next one...
Should this be true, which I do not know, I hope that it will be changed for future Events since, at least to my opinion, something like this would seem to me, to promote a behaviour which does not help "group effort" towards killing a given MoB but, rather, personal and opportunistic gain only.
Never be afraid to challenge the status quo