Dear Devs, can you please have Deceit's Treasures of the Undead Lords run for much longer?

Pawain · October 2020

@popps events have always had a more capable toon. You don't use your tamer for the artisan festival.

You choose your template. Nobody is telling you what to play. You choose something that kills slow, you don't get as many rewards as others. There are always people better than you.

More complaining instead of playing.

I have had fun finally being able to use my Paladin. He was one of the first Elves in Britania,

popps · October 2020

Cookie said:

popps said:

Not questioning that some players might be able to reach a high drop rate.... what I am saying is, rather, that the Developers, in order to make most players happy, look at those players with the lowest drop rate and the less hours to play the Event and not those who can get lots of drops for lots of hours, daily....

Personally, I think it is wrong to "tailor" a given Event or game mechanics to the "few" players who can do it better because they do not represent the grandest majority of their players' base but only a minority....

What needs to be looked at, instead, is the grandest majority of players who can only play limited time and only get a few drops per day...

That is why, to my opinion, the Event should be extended, so that these players might still be happy with it because they were able to get the items that they needed/wanted and, hopefully, also on the various Shards that they play, given that these items, as we know, are Shard Bound....

I added a final paragraph which went a little way towards my response to your point.
I think players get burnout, or get bored of an event, it gets stale.
Whilst I have really enjoyed Treasures of Deceit, the numbers are dropping off all the time, especially during the week/ out of prime time etc - to the point - it becomes harder/almost impossible for those left doing it to even do it, these events were built for numbers decimating the spawn.
There have been quite a few times recently, where it is only my guild left, and the absolute irony of all of this, is we are a Feluccan guild, last man standing in Trammel...
The Developers have created a schedule, they have a lot to fit in, it's pretty amazing they are constantly coming out with stuff, and quite frankly, they never let their train get derailed, they certainly don't listen when you'd like them to - Felucca remains closed for example - this event will not be prolonged no matter how much you want it. I say they don't listen - to be fair they do, and have implemented a lot of stuff in the long term that we have wanted, but in the short term, they really don't change course, or seem to have the means/resolve to fix certain issues.
And just to add - it is the limited nature of these events, and therefore drops, that creates the demand, and "specialness" of the drops in the first place. It is the entire point of these items.

Edit - to add - it appears to me, you have requested Shard Bound, and are now trying to backtrack, change everything else to fix the problems this is creating. In a sense, I don't have an issue with Shard Bound, but In a sense I do, I'm still sat on the fence a little. I can see the problems it is generating - and you either have to go the whole hog or not.

In regards to Shard Bound, I am all for them.

I think they are a great addition to help out the Low Population Shards and their economy.

That said, I do not see why it should not be given to players more "leeway" to be able to get the Shard bound Rewards that they need/want on the multiple Shards that they might play on....

Personally, I do not like to see items "exclusive" of a limited number of players, because that destroys the ability of other players lacking those items to be competitive both in PvM and PvP...

In PvM because players able to sport those items will always be ahead getting always looting rights or the highest drop rates (which will yield them even further more high end items...) and in PvP because they will be able to win all fights....

And this, I think, kills the game....

Sure, some, few players might still do the grind to try "catching up" with these uber scrolled, uber geared up players' Templates but, for the most part, players being among the "haves not" as compared to the "haves", after trying for a while to "catch up" might give it up, entirely, considering the grinding time necessary way too much to be any fun for them....

And the game looses players' base.....

Nope, to my opinion, items should be way more readily available and spread out among all of the players' base and not be kept only into the availability of a selected few who can either spend more time in the game or have more wealth to buy them.

That is why extending these Events would be good, because it would increase the availability of these items thus making them available to a much larger variety of players rather then only a selected few.

At least, that is how I see it.

Maximus_Neximus · October 2020

keven2002 said:

The content has been active over 2 weeks and I'll play 2-3 hours each day (let's sat 15 hours a week). Do the math. 18-20 hours a week dedicated to just doing Deceit. If you are playing any shard besides ATL where it's busy from server up to server down it's very easy to get 15 drops an hour (sometimes more sometimes less). So 15 drops per hour times roughly 35 hours (2 weeks and 2 days) is 525 points. The items I have claimed have been 100 for the Eps and then 50 for the other 3... that's only 250 points so I have points to spare. How is what I'm saying BS?

Maybe instead of blindly calling BS you should try it yourself... or at least take the extra 3minutes to do some basic math to see how attainable rewards are.

There are many who can't play 2-3 hours a day. If you have what you want then you don't have to keep doing it. Let those of us who can't grind several hours a day a chance to claim what we would like. We pay to play too.

Pawain · October 2020

@popps what do you think shardbound is! Exclusive items to players who played at a specific time. No more buying from Atlantic if you miss the event.

It only seems exclusive if you dont play..... Very inclusive for those that are playing.

Victim_Of_Siege · October 2020

popps said:

Cookie said:

popps said:

Not questioning that some players might be able to reach a high drop rate.... what I am saying is, rather, that the Developers, in order to make most players happy, look at those players with the lowest drop rate and the less hours to play the Event and not those who can get lots of drops for lots of hours, daily....

Personally, I think it is wrong to "tailor" a given Event or game mechanics to the "few" players who can do it better because they do not represent the grandest majority of their players' base but only a minority....

What needs to be looked at, instead, is the grandest majority of players who can only play limited time and only get a few drops per day...

That is why, to my opinion, the Event should be extended, so that these players might still be happy with it because they were able to get the items that they needed/wanted and, hopefully, also on the various Shards that they play, given that these items, as we know, are Shard Bound....

I added a final paragraph which went a little way towards my response to your point.
I think players get burnout, or get bored of an event, it gets stale.
Whilst I have really enjoyed Treasures of Deceit, the numbers are dropping off all the time, especially during the week/ out of prime time etc - to the point - it becomes harder/almost impossible for those left doing it to even do it, these events were built for numbers decimating the spawn.
There have been quite a few times recently, where it is only my guild left, and the absolute irony of all of this, is we are a Feluccan guild, last man standing in Trammel...
The Developers have created a schedule, they have a lot to fit in, it's pretty amazing they are constantly coming out with stuff, and quite frankly, they never let their train get derailed, they certainly don't listen when you'd like them to - Felucca remains closed for example - this event will not be prolonged no matter how much you want it. I say they don't listen - to be fair they do, and have implemented a lot of stuff in the long term that we have wanted, but in the short term, they really don't change course, or seem to have the means/resolve to fix certain issues.
And just to add - it is the limited nature of these events, and therefore drops, that creates the demand, and "specialness" of the drops in the first place. It is the entire point of these items.

Edit - to add - it appears to me, you have requested Shard Bound, and are now trying to backtrack, change everything else to fix the problems this is creating. In a sense, I don't have an issue with Shard Bound, but In a sense I do, I'm still sat on the fence a little. I can see the problems it is generating - and you either have to go the whole hog or not.

In regards to Shard Bound, I am all for them.

I think they are a great addition to help out the Low Population Shards and their economy.

That said, I do not see why it should not be given to players more "leeway" to be able to get the Shard bound Rewards that they need/want on the multiple Shards that they might play on....

Personally, I do not like to see items "exclusive" of a limited number of players, because that destroys the ability of other players lacking those items to be competitive both in PvM and PvP...

In PvM because players able to sport those items will always be ahead getting always looting rights or the highest drop rates (which will yield them even further more high end items...) and in PvP because they will be able to win all fights....

And this, I think, kills the game....

Sure, some, few players might still do the grind to try "catching up" with these uber scrolled, uber geared up players' Templates but, for the most part, players being among the "haves not" as compared to the "haves", after trying for a while to "catch up" might give it up, entirely, considering the grinding time necessary way too much to be any fun for them....

And the game looses players' base.....

Nope, to my opinion, items should be way more readily available and spread out among all of the players' base and not be kept only into the availability of a selected few who can either spend more time in the game or have more wealth to buy them.

That is why extending these Events would be good, because it would increase the availability of these items thus making them available to a much larger variety of players rather then only a selected few.

At least, that is how I see it.

in the amount of time it took you to type all of these posts, you could have gotten 5-10 drops. At least, that is how I see it.

popps · October 2020

Pawain said:

@ popps what do you think shardbound is! Exclusive items to players who played at a specific time. No more buying from Atlantic if you miss the event.

It only seems exclusive if you dont play..... Very inclusive for those that are playing.

Indeed, yet, not everyone can be logged 24/7 in the game....

I think that the time frame should be also "inclusive" of all the players who, because of real life contraints, can only log in a few hours per week....

Pawain · October 2020

popps said:

Pawain said:

@ popps what do you think shardbound is! Exclusive items to players who played at a specific time. No more buying from Atlantic if you miss the event.

It only seems exclusive if you dont play..... Very inclusive for those that are playing.

Indeed, yet, not everyone can be logged 24/7 in the game....

I think that the time frame should be also "inclusive" of all the players who, because of real life contraints, can only log in a few hours per week....

You will have had a month. If you want something from the rewards you have to go kill stuff. You get not rewards here. I am well over half way to my 5 epaulets.

Petra_Fyde · October 2020

If this event is extended, when are you going to find the time to play the next one?
I found my warrior is the best template for this event, and am loving playing her as she isn't the best template in most other situations, not being a sampire.
She's using a whip, having 81% life and mana leech and fighting mostly with lightning strike and momentum strike. Momentum strike allows her to leech life off the odd zombie & skelly while fighting a paragon and it uses less mana than a special move.

keven2002 · October 2020

Maximus_Neximus said:

keven2002 said:

The content has been active over 2 weeks and I'll play 2-3 hours each day (let's sat 15 hours a week). Do the math. 18-20 hours a week dedicated to just doing Deceit. If you are playing any shard besides ATL where it's busy from server up to server down it's very easy to get 15 drops an hour (sometimes more sometimes less). So 15 drops per hour times roughly 35 hours (2 weeks and 2 days) is 525 points. The items I have claimed have been 100 for the Eps and then 50 for the other 3... that's only 250 points so I have points to spare. How is what I'm saying BS?

Maybe instead of blindly calling BS you should try it yourself... or at least take the extra 3minutes to do some basic math to see how attainable rewards are.

There are many who can't play 2-3 hours a day. If you have what you want then you don't have to keep doing it. Let those of us who can't grind several hours a day a chance to claim what we would like. We pay to play too.

Well this doesn't make much sense. How does me not doing Deceit let those who can't grind have a chance? If you aren't at the same time as me I don't see how you are effected. If anything you want more people doing it so there are more rewards (supply vs demand) and it lowers the price. Everyone that is asking for more time is forgetting than they put in a system to do more of these treasure events more often (I'd have to assume that based on this reward list they are not going to completely re do rewards each cycle) so you will have your chance to claim rewards.

In regards to not being able to play, my point is that even if you had half the time I played (an hour a day) you could still have enough points to get several rewards and we still have 3 weeks to go. It's a bit selfish to say the event should be extended just because you as an individual can only play 4 hours a week. I guess we should make it easier too (maybe just a clicky at Luna Bank) so that someone's tailor can also get deceit drops because "it gives everyone a chance to claim what they like"?

You say you pay to play, well then stop posting on the forums and go play

Valis · October 2020

Leave the length of time as it is. It's fine.

I'm more surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

Pawain · October 2020

Petra_Fyde said:

If this event is extended, when are you going to find the time to play the next one?
I found my warrior is the best template for this event, and am loving playing her as she isn't the best template in most other situations, not being a sampire.
She's using a whip, having 81% life and mana leech and fighting mostly with lightning strike and momentum strike. Momentum strike allows her to leech life off the odd zombie & skelly while fighting a paragon and it uses less mana than a special move.

Exactly. It is a busy time and we want to do all the stuff. So, we have a month, move on to the next event. I also enjoyed dusting off my old Paladin in Deceit.

Seth · October 2020

Valis said:

Leave the length of time as it is. It's fine.

I'm more surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

What is the reason to lock this thread? Breach of TC, issue has been "answered", or quarrel, disrepect or?

Karyn · October 2020

popps said:

Because the goal should be that of having their players' base happy rather then upset.

Right here is the flaw in your thinking. It's not about keeping the player base happy. It's about monthly player engagement hours. That is the metric that drives business. The player is NOT the consumer, they are the product - you need to understand that.

popps · October 2020

Karyn said:

popps said:

Because the goal should be that of having their players' base happy rather then upset.

Right here is the flaw in your thinking. It's not about keeping the player base happy. It's about monthly player engagement hours. That is the metric that drives business. The player is NOT the consumer, they are the product - you need to understand that.

No way.

The player IS the consumer (and a paying one at that...), the product is the software.

You are looking at it the other way around.

Max_Blackoak · October 2020

no need to extend this event beyond the scheduled date. If people still haven't figured out how to farm Deceit effectively that's on them. The templates that work best have been posted all over the place.

Karyn · October 2020

The player IS the consumer (and a paying one at that...), the product is the software.

I'm afraid not. EA & Broadsword aren't concerned about what you think, your feelings, and to a lesser degree your happiness. They are beholden to the stockholders and the metric used to convince stockholders that they are a good investment is player engagement. How do you get player engagement? You create a grindy event and put a timer on it.

Sorry Popps, you're the product. This isn't the 50's, companies don't care about you; they care about their stockholders.

popps · October 2020

Max_Blackoak said:

no need to extend this event beyond the scheduled date. If people still haven't figured out how to farm Deceit effectively that's on them. The templates that work best have been posted all over the place.

I disagree.

This is a game, not a race, meant for entertainment and each paying customer is entitled to play it the way that they enjoy.

If some players enjoy playing a Bard, a Tamer or whatever, they do not HAVE TO be forced, by certain Design, to have to play, say, a Dexer because "it works"...

That may be vaild for you, as a player, but other players have different entertainment values.

Noone should be dictate how to play to others, and the Developers should accomodate ALL of the players' different playing styles.

So, if some players enjoy playing a given Template which does not get as many drops as the Template "that works", the Developers, being all subscribed players PAYING CUSTOMERS, should take into account the various enjoyed playing styles and adjust their Design accordingly.

You may have gotten tons of points and do not care getting any more, go do something else in the game then.

Other players, instead, playing other templates or not being able to play 24/7 because having real life responsibilities, might need more time to still be able to get the items that they need or want.

Remember, it is a GAME.

You may enjoy it playing in some way, other players, still paying customers if subscribed, might enjoy playing it in a total different way.

It is not a race, it is only a game to spend some time and have fun with that time in it, one's own way.

At least, that is the way I see it.

popps · October 2020

Karyn said:

The player IS the consumer (and a paying one at that...), the product is the software.

I'm afraid not. EA & Broadsword aren't concerned about what you think, your feelings, and to a lesser degree your happiness. They are beholden to the stockholders and the metric used to convince stockholders that they are a good investment is player engagement. How do you get player engagement? You create a grindy event and put a timer on it.

Sorry Popps, you're the product. This isn't the 50's, companies don't care about you; they care about their stockholders.

How do you get player engagement? You create a grindy event and put a timer on it.

And what will the stockholders get to say when then, the player base will shrink and shrink because more and more players have been quitting playing a game that is not fun to them ?

The Developers HAVE TO care, about players' enjoyment, because on that is based players' playing the game, and the stockholder will see those numbers....

So, players' enjoyment is at the root of it all, to my thinking.... players not happy means less players playing the game means stockholders not happy means Developers getting in trouble....

Karyn · October 2020

popps said:

The Developers HAVE TO care, about players' enjoyment, because on that is based players' playing the game, and the stockholder will see those numbers....

So, players' enjoyment is at the root of it all, to my thinking.... players not happy means less players playing the game means stockholders not happy means Developers getting in trouble....

Couple of things here. This event will run six weeks, they have two more events scheduled directly after this. Do you think people are going to quit en masse? No, they're going to grind out what they can get in the time they can get it. Then they're going to move on to the next event and grind it there too.

Sure you may get some people to quit, but given the stagnant nature of UO over the last few years, overall player engagement will be up even if you lose a few subs.

Suck it up and make time to go grind what you want; you've had six weeks. If you don't want to make time to do that, then that's not on Broadsword to make it easier for you - that's not their goal.

popps · October 2020

Karyn said:

popps said:

The Developers HAVE TO care, about players' enjoyment, because on that is based players' playing the game, and the stockholder will see those numbers....

So, players' enjoyment is at the root of it all, to my thinking.... players not happy means less players playing the game means stockholders not happy means Developers getting in trouble....

Couple of things here. This event will run six weeks, they have two more events scheduled directly after this. Do you think people are going to quit en masse? No, they're going to grind out what they can get in the time they can get it. Then they're going to move on to the next event and grind it there too.

Sure you may get some people to quit, but given the stagnant nature of UO over the last few years, overall player engagement will be up even if you lose a few subs.

Suck it up and make time to go grind what you want; you've had six weeks. If you don't want to make time to do that, then that's not on Broadsword to make it easier for you - that's not their goal.

I think that the Developers should tailor the length of a given Even to the average player's drops but skewed to the "lesser efficiency" so as to try to accomodate most players as possible.

Why ?

Because the goal should be that of having their players' base happy rather then upset.

If players, due to real life constraints, cannot get most of the Rewards, and with this Event it can be even more difficult being them Shard Bound wheareas many players might need them on several Shards, not just 1, then by setting the lifetime of the Even not long enough, they could end up with a whole bunch of their players' base dissatisfied and this would not help the game, I need to imagine.

Besides, letting an Even run for longer, would even free up Developers' time more, since they fire up a given Event, let them run for a good long time, and go spend their work on other stuff, perhaps fixing bugs, new content or the New Legacy Shard.... whatever....

So, having Events, especially in this case of the Deceit's Treasures of the Undead Lords for longer, would be a WIN WIN situation for the Developers..... their players' base would be happy as players could get the items which they need/want on all Shards they need them in, and the Developers would have more free time to work on something else....

Why not do it then ?

Karyn · October 2020

popps said:

I think that the Developers should tailor the length of a given Even to the average player's drops but skewed to the "lesser efficiency" so as to try to accomodate most players as possible.

Because the goal should be that of having their players' base happy rather then upset.

Why not do it then ?

and I've already told you why you are wrong. You just choose not to listen, as typical.

popps · October 2020

Karyn said:

popps said:

I think that the Developers should tailor the length of a given Even to the average player's drops but skewed to the "lesser efficiency" so as to try to accomodate most players as possible.

Because the goal should be that of having their players' base happy rather then upset.

Why not do it then ?

and I've already told you why you are wrong. You just choose not to listen, as typical.

I simply do not agree with your point of view.

Victim_Of_Siege · October 2020

@popps, Since 9:05 am (the time of your reply to Max's post) i have received 15 drops, quit yacking and play the game. If you do that you will get the items you want, At least, that is how I see it . . .

Of_Beasts · October 2020

I wonder what kind of reaction would be if they made items character bound lol.

Karyn · October 2020

popps said:
I simply do not agree with your point of view.

It's not a point of view, it's a simple business logic backed up by the metrics being presented in shareholder calls. When was the last shareholder call where they said "our players are happy". The answer is never - the focus is on player engagement.

As long as the player engagement is up (and it is) nobody of importance cares that you couldn't get all the drops you wanted because you were unwilling to commit the time needed to do it. There are twenty other players who's engagement just shot up 200%; those are the people they're interested in. Dragging out this event so the low engagement players can get their drops will cause high engagement players to get bored and move on to other online mediums.

That high engagement player is worth more than the low engagement player by far and they're going to keep that player on the thread mill by ending this event and coming out with a new limited-time event.

However, I've run out of crayons so I'm done trying to explain this to you.

Bilbo · October 2020

Karyn said:

popps said:
I simply do not agree with your point of view.

It's not a point of view, it's a simple business logic backed up by the metrics being presented in shareholder calls. When was the last shareholder call where they said "our players are happy". The answer is never - the focus is on player engagement.

As long as the player engagement is up (and it is) nobody of importance cares that you couldn't get all the drops you wanted because you were unwilling to commit the time needed to do it. There are twenty other players who's engagement just shot up 200%; those are the people they're interested in. Dragging out this event so the low engagement players can get their drops will cause high engagement players to get bored and move on to other online mediums.

That high engagement player is worth more than the low engagement player by far and they're going to keep that player on the thread mill by ending this event and coming out with a new limited-time event.

However, I've run out of crayons so I'm done trying to explain this to you.

LMAO EA could care less about your "engagement" just as long as you pay your subs and spend real money in their store. Shareholders only see $$$$$$$$ amounts. Good thing you ran out of crayons because you are totally clueless.

Arnold7 · October 2020

Don’t really agree with this. Game needs full time and part time players to survive.

Karyn · October 2020

Bilbo said:
LMAO EA could care less about your "engagement" just as long as you pay your subs and spend real money in their store. Shareholders only see $$$$$$$$ amounts. Good thing you ran out of crayons because you are totally clueless.

I'm the one that's clueless - you still think you're the consumer, not the product. What do you think drives subs and money spent in the store? Have you actually listened to a single shareholder call?

I really thought you guys were smarter than this.

Karyn · October 2020

Arnold7 said:

Don’t really agree with this. Game needs full time and part time players to survive.

Yes, it does, but it also doesn't care that Popps couldn't get his drops because he wanted to be a part-time player.

Agree, don't agree, but the developers are not making limited time events to capture the part-time player. They're looking at their full-time players.

Bilbo · October 2020

Karyn said:

Bilbo said:
LMAO EA could care less about your "engagement" just as long as you pay your subs and spend real money in their store. Shareholders only see $$$$$$$$ amounts. Good thing you ran out of crayons because you are totally clueless.

I'm the one that's clueless - you still think you're the consumer, not the product. What do you think drives subs and money spent in the store? Have you actually listened to a single shareholder call?

EA tells their shareholders how much their stocks are worth, that is called MONEY, those share holders could care less how many times you log in or how long you stay on or what you do while in the game just as long as you spend money. EA has NEVER provided any info about their player base or you would know how many people pay subs and that has been the most closely guarded secret from the beginning of UO, how many subs does UO really have. Please tell us how much money EA collects from UO Subs and Origin for UO only or post the so called data from one of the so called calls on UO, show us the hard facts. Now put away your crayons.

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Dear Devs, can you please have Deceit's Treasures of the Undead Lords run for much longer?

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